18 May 2008

Denmark -- Immigration Challenges -- Muslims

This is not my normal or usual style to cut and paste a whole article by someone else.

However, I found this article to be interesting and a good read! Therefore, I just cut and pasted the whole thing and then formatted it for this entry (substance wise it remains as written by Leslie Sacks). The article is about Denmark and the immigration challenges that they have encountered with respect to immigration by Muslims.

The article deals with the challenges of tolerance, integration, assimilation, and multiculturalism! If you have found me and read this far I would encourage you to read the article. It will not take you long...

Leslie Sacks

Denmark, long the liberal, open society that welcomed immigrants, has done an about face. After being the symbolic envy of Universalists, of Socialists, of cultural liberalism, Denmark today has the strictest immigration policy in Europe.

The Muslim population in Denmark, constituting a mere 4% of the total, refuses to integrate, consumes 40% of the welfare, and constitutes a majority of the country’s convicted rapists. The Danes now acknowledge that their core values of personal liberty, free speech, equality for women and tolerance of other ethnic groups are incompatible with Islam as they know it.

Muslim leaders openly advocate introducing Islamic law in Denmark. Danes at the forefront of advocating free speech and Western values are subject to fatwas and increasingly violent attacks from the Muslim population.

This haven of tolerance and openness has opted for survival and rationality. For citizenship, the country now requires of new immigrants:

- 3 years of language classes

- tests on Denmark’s history, culture and language

- 7 years of residency prior to application

- proven job opportunities and commitment to work

New mosques will not be allowed to be built in Copenhagen. Assimilation will be actively promoted. The country that once courageously and righteously saved their 7,000 Jews from the Nazi death camps now is accused of racism.

America is no stranger to accusations of profiling, political incorrectness and racism. Yet Muslims worldwide still beat down our doors to gain immigration status to the U.S. - they tellingly do not do likewise to the majority of UN nations habitually accusing the U.S. of racism. When did Cuba or Russia, Syria or even Saudi Arabia, those bastions of tolerance and freedom, last receive a deluge of immigrant applications?

So we in the U.S. spend our time being sued by aggressive Imams testing nervous airlines. Open season has been declared on the West by demanding Islamist organizations hoping to force the government and our municipalities to kowtow into passive submission. We now clearly need footbaths in every university restroom. We also need two taxi lines at every airport - one for those with short skirts, dogs or alcoholic beverages and one for Shari’a-compliant Americans.

Yet little spunky Denmark is showing us and everyone the way. They opened their borders and their coffers to welcome Muslims, in a show of remarkable generosity and goodwill. Now, bruised and battered by an unappreciative, increasingly fundamentalist, and sadly uncompromising Muslim community, they are closing their doors and battening down the hatches.

It is only a matter of time before America’s similar generosities and freedoms are likewise pressured. It will not be too long before our remarkable naiveté, our exquisitely refined political correctness, are replaced by realistic pragmatism and a strong commitment to our own cultural survival, to uncompromising freedoms and our non-negotiable security and liberty.

A new found taste for Danish pastries perhaps?

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FamilySecurityMatters.org Contributing Editor Leslie Sacks is an art dealer and gallerist in Los Angeles. Before that, he founded and operated Les Art International in Johannesburg, South Africa, where he was active in opposing apartheid and in supporting the Johannesburg Jewish community.


tere616 said...

Seems that I've seen this evidence in my own country.

My neighbour suddenly stop send their christmas greetings to me. Only one of my neighbour and she did it quietly.

It is not because of that religion, it's mainly because of the people who implement and understanding their religion.

Too bad if other religion insist others to follow their rules.

Just read in Kompas Sunday article, the profile of Sudjatmoko's daughter, of her opinion about women in our country, who adopted others country culture and forgot their predecessor.

Rob Baiton said...

Tere 616...

Just thought the piece was interesting in this ever-increasingly politically correct world that we live in.

I also thought it was timely considering current debates on appeasement and whether appeasement really works or does it just embolden those who benefit directly from any policy of appeasement?

Thanks for the comment!

rimafauzi said...

it was bound to happen, why Denmark used to be so open to Muslims that they were accused of discrimination to the Singhs (Indians). Why? One of the reasons I heard was schools providing halal meat/beef for the Muslim students, while not providing special food for the Indians (they don't eat beef, they consider it holy).

But what do the Danish get in return? Not a thank you, but a load of shit onto their faces.
It's bound to happen, and I don't blame them for doing it. The Danish should have gotten a "thank you for letting us in your country to live and enjoy all benefits" (they have one of the best citizen benefits in the world) but instead they get a "fuck you for not adhering to our rules and requests"

And yes rob, good read indeed!

Anonymous said...

Yes indeed, Muslim minorities in a Christian dominated country must be "assimilated" while Christian minorities in Muslim dominated countries must be respected. I suppose Indonesian Muslims should push the government to stop allowing building new churches in Indonesia, in an attempt to "assimilate" Christians. And no more barongsai hogwash for Chinese minorities, their culture must be "assimilated" as well. Bravo bigotry!

Rishardana said...

[sarcasm]Since the percentage of gambling associated arrests from Chinese ethnicity is so much higher than that of the other ethnics and also the fact that most major cases of drugs and ecstasy have been from the same race, Indonesia has to close immigrants flow coming from China and surrounding area. That country after all has done some unforgivable atrocities to their people namely Tibetans and not to forget the Tiananmen.

These people obviously do not integrate with the locals, a large number can not even speak Bahasa. They built their fences higher than their roofs, mingle only at the same places, Chinatown, Muara Karang, etc. They contribute next to nothing in the society except consuming majority of the welfare, spending the other wealth for vacationing and gambling in Singapore.[/sarcasm]

Boy, I sounded so much like the bigot who wrote the article. That, to me, is just a chance to take another swipe at the Muslims. Here's a comparison. Just because the number of rape cases against African American is higher than the Caucasian ones, doesn't mean they are mostly rapist or born evil. There are allegation of double standards by the police force, unbalanced development and education distribution, the whole black persecution issue, and many other contributing factors. Should America block the influx of black people in the first place?

In my recollection, Isn't America having a much larger problems dealing with Hispanic immigrants forcing Spanish to be the second national language? or the drug traffics from their southern borders? The notion that she is more disturbed by some imams making noises about the airport securities (which many more nationalities and party has expressed their annoyance) suggest that she has personal issues with the religion.

I was wondering how was the immigration process during time when Italians, Irish, Jews, and the likes flock the country. And how was the integration process of Australian and Aborigines went by the way? Back then (before the internet and CNN) of course there weren't many immigration headaches coming from Muslims because their countries such as Iraq and Afghan have only just recently being ravaged by wars aided by the gallant America establishing democracy to said places. Algerian, Liberian, and Indonesia luckily were still in the loving arms of their French and Dutch benefactors.

This is no more than moving the goal post when it's time to tackle the so called 'Muslim Problems'. Or maybe I'm just having my usual dose of persecution complex :D

I still haven't been able to gauge your personal take on the matters though, Mr. Bayton.

How was your weekend by the way and what will you do in this National Kejepit Day? Sorry for this Monday Morning Rant in your blog. Promise I won't make a habit out of it :)

rimafauzi said...

it's not assimilating muslim minorities that is the problem, they are immigrant who are given the privilege by the country to work and live there. then they cause chaos. of course the government is upset.
if the same happens in a muslim country, by all means, do the same.

in indonesia, the minorities are not immigrants, they are as indonesian as the muslim indonesian. all religions were imported, thus everybody has the same rights. plus, there are no pasukan pembela kristen or hindu or buddha or cina getting angry about some 'blasphemy' and creating riots etc. the minority are always the victims there.

Rishardana said...

When I said Chinese Immigrants, I meant those who are just recently arriving at the shores of Jakarta, Batam, Tanjung Pinang, and other gates. Those new immigrants speak Indonesia very little. People met them frequently, watching the stores, selling dvds in local market, and many other 'entry level' jobs. They’re quite huge in numbers actually but of course I can’t give you the actual data.

Pretty soon they will be millionaires I guess, following the steps of Liem Siu Liong, Eka Tjipta Wijaya, and the other big names. From my knowledge these billionaires were once selling fried rice in Losari beach during the 70 before their rise to the Asian rich list, if that not goes to show Indonesia has been quite hospitable to Immigrants then I don’t know what will.

Please note that I put sarcasm tag in my post above. I will never prevent any Chinese, or any other ethnics for that matter, to be the citizen of Indonesia. If they want to be Indonesian then so be it, the more the merrier :) I love the Chinese Indonesian as much as the next man, 1 of my current best friends (I have very few best friends sadly) are of Tionghoa descents. I am working in an office where it's a policy to have 50% Muslim and 50% Christian because it's based on a shift system. The Christians will back The Muslims up during Lebaran and The Muslims will do the same during Christmas and New Year.

rimafauzi said that, "The minority are always the victims there."

I find that statement rather simplistic and naive to say the least. I'm afraid this will be just another case of ad hominem, but I can tell you stories about how the minority is as oppressive as the majority, given the chance. During 2001, I worked in Sinar Mas group, belongs to some Taipan, there has been many complaints that when a Muslim wants to pray he/she will be stepped at or harassed. I have seen it with my own eyes, when a man is doing the sujud, one guy step on his back purposefully. He had to quit the job after only 1 month. My father also been a victim to some primordialism act by the so called minority but let’s not dwell into that.

I can write here many other similar stories as also my Chinese friends could about some act of racism they get, but that would be inciting hatred and will not solve anything. I wish people would just realize that there is a flip side to every coin.

rimafauzi said...

in that case, if you are talking bout the immigrants that just got off a boat/plane and settled in indonesia without wanting to integrate as a part of the indonesian community, i have no beef with you.
i was actually replying to anon's comment.

and i stand corrected when i say 'most of the time, the minorities are the victims.'

I realise things like that happen (things you describe) but I hear many of my christian, hindu and buddhist friends stories of being discrimintaed against or stories quite like yours, but i have never have heard a story in which the muslim was the victim (in indonesia). It really sucks, and it really should stop (the abuse not the stories).

Rob Baiton said...


I unlike some others encourage comments from people not prepared to reveal their true identity. However, as you have characterized the problem it is one of bigotry and I do not necessarily disagree with your view. The assimilation argument is all very Star Trek and similar to that of the Borg!


Multiculturalism would be the way forward in a perfect world, but alas our world is far from perfect.

The point though is that this article refers to recent immigration and not long term residents of different faiths or ideals. It points out new immigrants and specifically identifies Muslim immigrants. Is this bigotry? My answer is no!

Personal experience in Australia shows that people with extreme agendas can get elected to parliament preaching this view. It woudl seem that they can get elected to parliaments in other countries too. This was very much Pauline Hanson's agenda and seems in many ways to be Geert Wilders' agenda as well.

The assimilation of Australia's indigenous population to that of the predominant white culture was, many would argue, a policy of good intent but ultimately ill-conceived! The recent apology by Kevin Rudd to our indigenous brothers and sisters would suggest as much (this though is a different argument and I think I have posted on this)...

Stopping immigration is not the answer, the answer is working out how we can live together as people whilst respecting each others differences. The drive to continued political correctness is slowly but surely killing our tolerance. We are simply afraid to call things as they are for fear of being labelled a racist or a bigot.

I have not done teh research to know whether the figures quoted in the piece are true but if it is the case that 4% of the population is soaking up 40% of welfare payments then there are issues that need to be addressed and resolved in order to move forward.

My opinion is that if you move to another country then there needs to be some degree of acceptance of the norms of that country.

For me the funny thing in that sad perverse kind of a way is that migrants go to extreme lengths in some cases to get residency in a "Western State" and then seek to change their new home into something that resembles their old home!

My personal take is that I am for peace, prosperity, and harmony for all. However, this requires compromise all round and not just from one side. If all sides are ready to come to the party then let's party! If not, then these kind of issues will continue to exist and drive our relationships with each other.

Rob Baiton said...


The post was posted with a view to generating debate and maybe even heated discussion.

I tagged the post in a way I hoped would attract some visitors (I think I need to rework my tagging ideas here if I want to succeed on that front)...

Thanks for stopping by and leaving comments.

johnorford said...

well denmark is one example of lifting up the drawbridge. sweden is the opposite.

multiculturalism isn't complicated. it's not any anything goes attitude. it's about conforming to core values and accepting differences.

for every muslim immigrant that ends up in prison, there are 100 that have made their and their new community's lives a better place.

Rob Baiton said...


Thanks for dropping by. I am glad that I finally wrote something that peaked your interest enough to comment :D

I agree that multiculturalism is not that hard in theory...the accepting differences and managing those differences when divergent opinions collide is the difficult part. Most States don't handle that so well (at least in my opinion) although some manage it better than others.

I defer to you on Sweden and any other European examples as I have been too busy to research the issue in depth (and you're based in that part of the world, right?). I just happened across the article and found it to be an interesting read...

For me the interesting part relates as much to the author and the author's history as it does to the article itself...

Once again thanks...you should drop by more often and comment more often as well!


Polar Bear said...

It isn’t Islam, it’s the interpretation of Islam, the people who follow that religion, and the level of politics embedded into Islam. To be honest Catholicism isn’t any better at keeping out of politics (until recently divorce, condoms, homosexuality and abortion were illegal in Ireland because the Pope didn’t like it).
It iss also sad that right now the majority of Muslims come from genetic groups who have a volatile history. I don’t think its anything to do with religions because the Christians from the same genetic groups are just as bad. The very people who manage to get into non Muslim countries as migrants tend to be either war scarred refugees, or “driven” people who are determined to get what they want. I know many Muslims who are so laid back they could never be bothered to even visit the Australian embassy to look into migrating, even though they would stand a good chance. I also know a few in Sydney who definitely shouldn’t have slipped through the net.