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An independent voice and an independent perspective - Carpe Diem!
Rob..At long last this circus is over and the clowns are gone, they dragged it out to the death, Quite literally! and now we’ll have to wait and see what their pathetic bunch of moronic followers will do in the form of retribution.
so, now let's just wait for their "press conference from the afterlife" regarding the subject of the existence of the 72 virgins.sorry, cannot help myself by making that joke :D shame on me
the writer...I wonder if the 72 virgins are girls or boys?However I think they will be disappointed as the devil doesn't like people enjoying themselves.
@schemerly: I don't know. I am not even convinced if the 72 virgins are humans. Well don't ask me, I don't have any knowledge on the Koran :P
Schmerly...I am not sure that the circus is over yet. There might still be a little more to come.The Writer...It is both unfortunate and fortunate that we will not know and that a press conference from the after life is not possible.Simply, if there were 72 virgins for each "martyr" entering the after life then the after life would be a much easier sell and the world would be a much scarier place.However, if there were no virgins in the after life for people such as those who kill innocents then maybe there would be less wanting to join the cause.Catch 22.
Rob and the writer..Have a look at this:Julia Suryakusuma , Jakarta | Wed, 10/22/2008 10:46 AM | Opinion Surfing the net last week, I stumbled across the reason why so many Muslim terrorists are not afraid to die, long to be syahid and are willing to end it all in a homicidal suicide-bombing: Turns out they may just be sexually repressed lads desperate for a bit of nookie! At least this was the only conclusion I could reach after watching a kooky video by Saudi cleric Omar Al-Sweilem. In the clip, he passionately extolled the breasts and thighs of the 72 black-eyed virgins promised to martyrs who make it to paradise (http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1741.htm/). "Praised be He who created night and day. What hair! What a chest! What a mouth! What cheeks! What a figure! What breasts! What thighs! What legs! What whiteness! What softness!" It seems good ol' Omar has got post-mortem sex worked out in detail, right down to the last grope and squeeze. "When they see you, they will push you onto your back, on (the) musk cushion ... place her mouth on yours. Do whatever you want. Another one would press her cheek against yours, yet another would press her chest against yours, and the others would await their turn ... one black-eyed virgin would give you a glass of wine as a reward for your good deeds. The wine of this world is destructive, but not the wine of the world to come." Yes, Omar's message to the faithful is clear: It's perfectly all right to enjoy sensuous joys and erotic sexual pleasures -- including group sex and drunken orgies -- just so long as you're dead.I think this sums it up, all rather sad really. I've left the link in the text if your interested.
Schmerly...Read it last week.Interesting :D
@schmerly: I am echoing what Rob said - It's sad.but I also call it "effective brainwash"but let's be a bit analytical here: if "God" provides 72 virgins for each of the martyr, then 3 martyrs (which were executed recently) would need a total of 216 virgins. We haven't counted all the martyrs "produced" by other events like the Iraqi suicide bombings and all, I wonder if there are enough virgins to cover the whole world?hmm...
The Writer...My guess would be that Allah is a virgin making machine or that in Paradise, once a virgin always a virgin.Or Paradise is just a really densely populated place!
I read that Jemaah Islamiah said the Bali attacks were intended to deter foreigners as part of a drive to make Indonesia part of a larger Islamic caliphate.Isn’t time the Indonesian government banned this terrorist group?
Schmerly...I don't know that you need to deter foreigners to make this plan happen. To the contrary, I think that you need to convince the people of this proposed pan-Asian Caliphate that it is in their best interests.I do not see this happening in my life time. This is particularly so when JI is having trouble convincing Indonesia that it should be an Islamic state.Besides, I recently read that ABB has become a little fed up with JI and being its spiritual head that he has formed a new organization dedicated to the implementation and application of Sharia Law.
Rob…Yea great, an Indonesia run on sharia law! These so called (sharia law’s) that were invented by a load of perverted uneducated Arab morons a couple of thousand years ago to control the population (especially the women) need to be scraped, this after all the twenty-first century? It’s time the so called (moderate Moslems) voiced their opinion, all I hear is silence!
Schmerly...Sharia Law is always going to be an issue in Indonesia. It is after all a country with a majority Muslim population.Sharia extends beyond just criminal law. Some might even argue that it is not a series of laws at all but rather a code of moral conduct.Can Sharia work in the 21st Century depends on a number of things. All laws or codes in some way seek to control the population. So, in that sense if Sharia is viewed as regulating the population, then it is no different from other laws and codes. The Church, for example, has Ecclesiastical law or Canon law which governs things like women not being permitted to be priests.The idea that Sharia law was invented by a load of uneducated and perverted Muslim men is wrong. They were educated men of their time and their laws reflect the times. The issue might be why has their not been a modernizing of the laws or codes that govern relationships within the community to reflect developments in modern society. An ijtihad if you will.Schmerly, by labeling all Arabs or Muslims as uneducated morons you undermine any legitimacy of your points through the generalizations made. I cannot see how one can engage in constructive debate if you have already written your opponent off as an uneducated moron?I am generally tolerant of people's rights to hold opinions and an advocate of free speech. The Voltaire idea of I might not agree with what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it.Nevertheless, this is not unlimited or an absolute. If you want to rail against the injustices that you feel Sharia tolerates and promotes, then you should provide examples and justify the statements made. Some of my readers will undoubtedly be offended by your suggestion that Arabs are perverted uneducated morons. Your statement could easily be construed as being racist. Racism does not fall within the gambit of free speech by my reckoning.Do not misconstrue this as being apologist, rather see this as a request or a challenge to provide more substance to your arguments in addition to the generalizations.I know highly educated "Arabs", Indonesians, Muslims who make excellent arguments for the introduction of Sharia as a code. I might not agree with them but it is about the arguments and not about their race or their beliefs.
Rob..Point taken, looking back on my ranting I really should tone it down a bit.I'm sorry if anyone's offended, that wasn't my intention.
Schmerly...I have been thinking about how I should put this, so it is just out with it ;)My point is that there is nothing wrong with a good rant or rail. I don't think I said tone it down either. Support and context to your arguments will always give people pause to think about what is being said.What I am also saying though is generalizations detract from arguments because when push comes to shove it is so much easier to defend and argue specifics as there will always be something or someone not confroming to the generalization.
Rob..Okey Dokey, and Rob you didn’t say tone it down, that was just my suggestion to Schmerly!
Schmerly...It is always nice when you start talking to yourself and making notes to yourself, isn't it?I do it all the time.
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