This is Schapelle Corby related news. However, the main subject of this little post is Robin Tampoe; a one-time lawyer for Schapelle Corby.
Robin Tampoe (photo courtesy of here) became involved in the Corby case very early on. He provided pretty bad advice, in my opinion, because his own ego required that he piggy back on this case in order to make a name for himself by using someone else's legal predicament to further his career. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, this has backfired in a big way and has in fact ended his legal career as he has been struck off the role of legal practitioners.
The advice was indicative of someone not knowing the intricacies of the Indonesian legal system and also highlighted a substantial lack of understanding of the substantive law that applies in Indonesia. In this sense, the writing was on the wall for Corby as soon as Tampoe became involved. However, the advice is not the reason for his striking off, but rather his conduct as a lawyer and handling of client information.
It was certainly a Forrest Gump kind of a moment in the type "stupid is as stupid does". Simply, Tampoe came into possession of confidential information which he then divulged to the world on TV. This information related to prior criminal convictions among members of the family. After being dumped from the Corby legal team he then went on to add insult to injury by disparaging them in the documentary, "Schapelle Corby - The Hidden Truth", by calling the family "trash".
The Legal Services Commissioner initiated the action based on an allegation that Tampoe breached client confidentiality. In essence, he failed to uphold the lawyer - client privilege that certain communications are subject to. In a written judgment of Justice Roslyn Atkinson of the Queensland Legal Practice Tribunal, Tampoe was found guilty of professional misconduct. Atkinson then ordered that Tampoe be struck off the roll.
On a side note. It is interesting to see that in the current Manohara case two of Indonesia's senior lawyers, Todung Mulya Lubis and OC Kaligis, have left the legal teams of Prince Tengku Temenggong Mohammad Fakhry and Manohara Odelia Pinot respectively, and then gone on to make some disparaging remarks about their former clients relating to their respective intents to resolve that matter. I wonder, any ethics or professional misconduct issues there?
919 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 919 Newer› Newest»Kay...
I somehow think that commonsense, logic, and truth are not Anonymous' strong points. There has been a concerted and deliberate effort to misrepresent what has been said.
There has been an effort to hijack the discussion through the derision of those who support a repatriation but do not give the proverbial "rat's arse" about whether she is guilty or not.
Here's the thing, the sum total of my argument has been that the girl is guilty in the eyes of the Indonesian law, I have not been arguing the pros and cons of the evidence. It has always been a narrow argument.
It is sad that anonymous is deliberately misrepresenting what I have said and written. The majority of his comments have been at best puerile.
I am pretty sure you are not the only one that does not understand what anonymous is on about or why?
Jacqui...
Apparently not.
Kay...
It does, doesn't it?
Anonymous...
The Indonesian legal position is that she broke the law and has been punished for it.
Really? She can only be repatriated if she is innocent? If this is the case, then we will not be seeing Schapelle on Australian shores until sometime after 2020.
I never said anything about her pleading insane. Point to the comment where I said she was insane. You just won't be able to do it.
Unfortunately, you are all about talking about the past in wanting to focus on the evidence and insanity pleas and the like. I have almost exclusively focused on the future and going forward what happens next.
Really? I cannot talk about the verdict and support repatriation at the same time. You really do not get it, do you?
Yes, Kay has done a lot of excellent work for a lot of people. And, she has done it under her own name.
Why are you giving me a compliment after all this anger towards me. According to www.dictionary.com:
troll1 /troʊl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [trohl] Show IPA ,
Use troll in a Sentence
See web results for troll
See images of troll
–verb (used with object) 1. to sing or utter in a full, rolling voice.
2. to sing in the manner of a round or catch.
3. to fish for or in with a moving line, working the line up or down with a rod, as in fishing for pike, or trailing the line behind a slow-moving boat.
4. to move (the line or bait) in doing this.
5. to cause to turn round and round; roll.
6. Obsolete. to hand around, as a bowl of liquor at table.
–verb (used without object) 7. to sing with a full, rolling voice; give forth full, rolling tones.
8. to be uttered or sounded in such tones.
9. to fish by trolling.
10. to roll; turn round and round.
11. to move nimbly, as the tongue in speaking.
–noun 12. a song whose parts are sung in succession; a round.
13. the act of trolling.
14. a lure used in trolling for fish.
15. the fishing line containing the lure and hook for use in trolling.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1350–1400; ME trollen to roll, stroll < MF troller to run here and there < MHG trollen walk or run with short steps
Related forms:
troller, noun
So, you totally slander me and then give such a remarkably nice compliment. Very odd thing to do... Anyway, I'm sure you'll be back to clutching at straws before long...
Anonymous...
If you want to know what an internet troll is, then why don't you do a Google search. If that is not possible I will post you a link, if you like.
Why am I wasting time talking about Schapelle Corby? Or why am I wasting my time responding to the puerile comments of an anonymous commenter who does not have the courage to back up their puerile and slanderous comments with a name?
You calling me a liar does not bother me. I responded to it because you brought it up. I would hate you to think that I was ignoring you.
Really? I cannot talk about the verdict and support repatriation at the same time.
Exactly. You leave talk of verdict out altogether. Despite Kay's criticism in this blog, even she is not so dumb and reckless to do such a thing... You just say "Don't want to talk about it", "I'm not in a position to comment". That is the case for all of us anyway. A belief of innocence or guilt is just that (a belief) as it was never proven one way or the other.
Anyone can go down to the cops and make up a story about them. If they get convicted (which is the case here) very raw deal to say the least...
Anonymous...
It seems that we are posting at the same time.
I have not slandered you. You are in fact a coward. If you are not, then reveal who you are. You have been slandering me pretty consistently yet still have not offered up any proof of any of the things you have written.
In me calling you a coward, the truth of that statement is in the fact that you are hiding behind the moniker of anonymous while slandering me. Most would agree that is the behaviour of a coward.
Anger? What anger? Please point to anger in any of my statements or responses to you. You have nothing, you are clutching at straws.
Try this definition on for size:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
Have a nice evening.
Maybe we should record a duet Rob, since you think I sing so well...
You believe everything on google. HA! That's like saying you believe everything you read in newspapers. Maybe you do???
Anonymous...
I can comment and I will continue to do so.
There is nothing dumb about commenting on this verdict. Schapelle Corby supporters are commenting on it all the time. Every time a supporter talks about the evidence or talks about the raw deal that they believe she received, they talk about the case and the verdict.
So, simply, if it is dumb for one then it must be dumb for all. It cannot be off limits for some and not off limits for others.
See, this is where you are wrong. In the eyes of the Indonesian law she was proven guilty and she is doing 20 years for the crime. So, in that sense it was proven one way of the other. More to the point, that is not longer the issue in the immediate future, is it?
Unfortunately for you, this is not as simple as someone going down to the police station and making a complaint or an allegation. Schapelle Corby was in essence caught with the dope in her bag, wasn't she?
It really is sad that you are even commenting because each time you do you highlight why the girl remains in jail. Your focus is all wrong. This is too bad.
But, as usual, you misrepresent what I have said.
So, keep coming back and keep true to form. It would seem that your comments are also causing some concern for "real" Schapelle supporters.
Anonymous...
You really are lame.
It is pretty clear what an internet troll is, and that is what you are. Even your attempt to define what a troll is highlights the fact that you are an internet troll.
Why are you wasting your time here? Don't you have better things to do? Like help Australians incarcerated overseas?
Rob...
Thank God there are those with lots of commonsense working very hard behind the scenes helping Schapelle Corby.
And lets not ignore, there are those who project an illusion they are supporters of Schapelle & the Corby family when in fact they are not ;-)
You are very colloquial Rob. Anyway, you are no help to Schapelle and/or the cause of foreigners incarcerated overseas. And, no, it was never proven one way or another. Having an explosive in your mailbox doesn't mean that you put it there?? Schapelle has said this is something she had nothing to do with - you disagree, so you're calling a liar. You can support without talking about this. Just sad you've made it all about your corrupt views then supporting her.
Sorry for including you in for the duet because you never called yourself a troll. It's actually more a verb then a noun. Then again, that might be too hard for you to understand.
WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THIS INTERNET SITE? WHAT'S YOUR OBJECTIVE? WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO GAIN FROM HAVING IT?
Anonymous...
It sometimes gets a little difficult to follow all the anonymous commenters.
I am happy that there are plenty of behind the scenes people working for Schapelle. I wish them every success.
Yes, it would seem that the anonymous commenter after you believes that I fall into that group.
Oh well. I guess for some, the only way to be a supporter is to play the game according to a specific set of rules set by others.
But, in relation to the first point, there could probably be a lot more people involved if they were allowed to be involved sans having an opinion on the innocence or guilt of Schapelle, but just because they feel that she has suffered enough.
Anonymous...
By the tone I can see which anonymous you are. Funnily enough, your tone and turns of phrase are very similar, and in many instances the same, as another particular pseudonym that has posted here before.
Unfortunately, you cannot be him because he has promised that he would not be commenting here again. I think it was something to do with the blog and the posts not being worth his time.
Mate, if I am no help then why are you even bothering to be here? More importantly why are you seemingly wasting your time in wanting to see me closed down for my opinions?
Unfortunately, for Schapelle and for you argument, it was proved in an Indonesian court. Now, if you do not agree with that, then so be it. However, to say that it was not proved one way or the other is not true. You know that it is not true to boot. The simple fact is this, if it was not proved one way or the other then she would not be doing a 20-year stretch at Kerobokan.
The arguments and debate about the evidence are now a separate issue to the very simple fact of; crime, investigation, trial, conviction, sentence, Kerobokan. This was appealed, and the appeals failed.
What remains now is clemency.
You are a selective reader, aren't you? Can you point to where I called her a liar? I said she was guilty, and then proceeded to define and explain that definition. So, when you say I call Schapelle Corby a liar, you are in fact misrepresenting what I have said and written throughout this post.
But, this is your argument style, isn't it? Short on substance and long on abuse and insinuations.
You can support Schapelle Corby and talk about the sentence and the process that led to her incarceration. Let's face it, there are forums all over the internet that do just that.
If I am not mistaken the Free Schapelle Forum has now even started a section where they have invited people to post the reasons that they think she is guilty. This would seemingly be an opportunity to rehash the evidence and discuss the alleged deficiencies of the trial process, wouldn't it?
You obviously did not follow the link I included to a Wikipedia definition of an internet troll. Oh well. I would have figured that you would have been keen on Wiki definitions as a means of determining what something means.
This is not an internet site, it is a blog. I have no obligation to tell you what my objective is, do I? What is your objective for posting comments on this thread other than to harm the cause that you claim to support?
I do not hope to gain anything from it. However, I have seemingly gained a troll, which is sort of like the Clayton's bonus; the bonus you get but do not really want.
In any event, if you took the time to read the blog, then you would find that posts on Schapelle Corby are a mere fraction of the more than 1300 posts made.
You are misguided and wasting your time in thinking that this is a blog about Schapelle Corby.
Enjoy your weekend. I am sure you will be back.
Anonymous to Anonymous
Ya gotta see this, they got some USA bird on tha chin wag now!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSJduGWvpzg
Rob...
Thank God there are those with lots of commonsense working very hard behind the scenes helping Schapelle Corby.
And lets not ignore, there are those who project an illusion they are supporters of Schapelle & the Corby family when in fact they are not ;-)
Anonymous...
Even though your video seems to be posted to another anonymous within this thread, I thought I would comment anyways (after all it is my blog :D).
It is a short and interesting video.
In many respects it says what I have been arguing here in this thread for some time; Schapelle has done enough time for the crime and she needs to have access to appropriate medical treatment (this may or may not require repatriation).
Unfortunately, some commenters have become caught up in a statement relating to her guilt in the eyes of the Indonesian legal process.
That is too bad.
Thanks for posting the link.
A sad reminder for many prisoners detained throughout the world, also facing depression and some, even far more life threatening illnesses such as HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis.... thankfully those with financial support and family support, can access appropriate treatment. Life in a foreign prison is a grim reality, hence why we need our governments to establish Prisoner Transfer Agreements and foster good bilateral relationships.... to give hope to otherwise, seemingly hopeless situations.
Kay...
Yes, a sad reminder indeed.
There are many in situations similar and worse than the one Ms. Corby finds herself in.
PTAs take time even where the governments of both nations are seemingly committed to creating them. Nevertheless, healthy and sound bilateral relations might produce dividends even where a PTA is not in place.
Nevertheless, this assumes that there is diplomatic method to the madness that ensues in pursuit of a (early) release.
Indeed Rob... we have been involved in a number of cases where the prisoner has been repatriated early. It requires a diplomatic approach and plenty of good will.
Boring...
Anonymous...
Really?
The best you have got is "boring"?
Oh dear, but I guess this means you won't be back again?
Anonymous to Anonymous...
Are you the USA bird?
Anonymous...
Which USA bird?
Didn't ask you Rob... Sadly, I think we have to understand that your traits are pathological and unfortunately you can't be reasoned with. You have more or less said this in your writings. I wish this weren't the case...
You accusing Schapelle of being a liar in court is very defamatory to her current situation.
Oh well, maybe time to get back on that plane. You'll gel right in...
Anonymous...
Unfortunately for you, this is my blog. Therefore, you pose questions on this blog then I am certainly free to ask questions about your questions.
I have asked you a number of times to point to the post or the comment where I call Schapelle Corby a liar. But, as is your modus operandi here, you pose questions, you defame and slander, but you never answer questions put to you.
To the contrary, I can be reasoned with. But, you have not come up with anything reasonable for me to consider. Your focus is, and has always been, to play the man and not the ball.
In fact, when I have talked about Schapelle Corby being guilty the idea of guilt has been construed very strictly and narrowly. The one who is unable to be reasoned with is you. You prefer to misrepresent what I have written.
The one doing Schapelle most harm is you. You cannot even put your name to your rants. What are you afraid of?
Maybe I would fit right in. I also fit right in where I am at the moment...Enjoy your weekend my anonymous troll.
Hi Rob,
I'm really confused by these so called supporters who claim to have Schapelle's best interest at heart. How on earth are they helping her when they are attacking people like yourself, who believe that five years is long enough and she should come home? I just can't understand them!
Clutching at straws Rob?? You have said she is a liar the whole way through this blog. That is, you agree with the Indonesians verdict. This has been gone through at length multiple times now.
You have unfortunately cemented down how pathological you are in your last post.
Kay Danes has a good point. However, she would be aware that highlighting anything defamatory towards the prisoner causes a lot of harm. In this case, I think that if you don't agree that Schapelle is not guilty, you should refrain from speaking about it... Rob, this is how Schapelle would prefer you to be: NOT ME!!
The reality is that you don't care about Schapelle. Indonesians are only concerned about position and money. Kathryn Bonella now has a book out about corruptness there!!
What songs have you been trolling lately Rob? On Schapelle's website is lots of music contributing to the cause... Have a look!
Anonymous...
I am getting bored with responding to you as anonymous. So, I ma going to give you a name. How about Morph? The rationale being you cannot tell us who you really are so in essence you "morph" into an anonymous commenter.
Morph it is!
Morph...
Clutching at straws? I hardly think so. All of my arguments have been logical, well-reasoned, and well-argued. You on the other hand have failed to answer even the simplest questions. What's more you continue to misrepresent and lie about what I have written and said.
For example, I have asked you to point to a specific post or comment on this thread where I have called Schapelle Corby a liar. You have not taken up the challenge. Why is that?
No. The blog is not about Schapelle Corby. Try this challenge on for size; count how many posts there are about Schapelle Corby on this blog and then tell me what that amounts to as a percentage of the total number of blog posts.
In fact this post is about Robin Tampoe and has only a fleeting reference to the fact that he was at one point considered to be Schapelle's lawyer, and has subsequently been struck off the Roll of Legal Practitioners.
Once again, you lie. I have explained my position on numerous occasions about why I believe her to be guilty. Unfortunately for you, you are incapable of following the logic of my argument or you are fixated on me and are trying to deliberately misrepresent what I have said and have been saying.
Unfortunately for you, yet again, this is my blog. I can, and will say whatever I want to. I have not defamed Schapelle Corby. She is a convicted drug smuggler / importer. It would not take a lot to prove that. If at some point in the future that verdict and conviction was quashed, then I would be more than happy to post a blog entry and note that very event.
However, at this point in time that is not the state of play, is it?
Once again, this is not a post about Kay Danes. It seems that you think you are inviting Kay Danes to come out and criticize me here on my blog. If she feels it necessary to set me straight on my beliefs and opinions, then I am happy for her to do so. I do not know her personally, but I do have much more respect for her than I do for you.
You are an internet troll (nothing to do with singing my Morph-ing friend) who tries to hide behind the moniker "anonymous". You are a coward!
If this is how Schapelle would prefer it to be then perhaps Mercedes or some other named person could post here and confirm that. Even so, I would still comment as I have done. The reality is that her guilt or innocence is not the primary concern right now, is it?
Morph, you do not know what I care about. Your view on Indonesians is narrow-minded to say the least, and uniformed to boot.
I have written a separate post about Kathryn Bonella's book, Hotel Kerobokan. Go there and feel free to comment. I wonder what agenda KB has for writing the book. I also wonder how being so critical of the Kerobokan Prison makes it easier for Schapelle Corby and the other Australians resident there?
Once again, an internet troll has nothing to do with music per se. Perhaps you should have followed the link I provided.
Morph, are you promoting a particular site for Schapelle Corby related music? Is it a site that you have something to do with?
Have a nice day or evening wherever you are.
Hi Rob,
I have no problem with you thinking Schapelle is guilty. In fact, there are many people I deal with on a daily basis who feel the same way. They're entitled to their opinion. The only concern I have is that Schapelle has served 5 years and is obviously not coping very well. Like you, I believe five years is long enough and she should come home to a facility where she can receive proper medical care. Had she more competent people advising on her case then she would stand a better chance of this becoming a reality. However, the tabloid approach and book exposure of 'how bad conditions and treatment are' (allegedly) are not going to endear Schapelle to her captors. Even her own mother agrees that this is to her detriment.
I've been inside Kerobokan and it's not as bad as other prisons in Asia, but it's no holiday camp either. And when you don't have your freedom, being jailed in the Hilton would seem a torture to some.
I think Rob has a better grasp of this matter then 'annon' would give him credit.
Kay...
Although, I believe that five years is more than enough time as a punishment in this case. I do not see that the first step is going to be repatriation and treatment in Australia.
My view, and I am sure I have stated it elsewhere on this thread, is that the first step would be an Indonesian treatment facility / hospital. If that fails then there might be a more substantial argument for repatriation to Australia.
With respect to Schapelle's guilt. I have always been careful and conscious of describing, defining, and explaining her guilt in very narrow and limited circumstances.
I think that there are arguments to be made for innocence. However, I am certain that now is not the time for those arguments.
It is also not good timing with respect to the Bonella book, even if the essence of what is written is true.
Oh well.
Kay Danes is aware it is a total hellhole. None of us can comment on how bad it is - even if we have visited. The only way we could possibly know is if we have served time there. Kay Danes (as far as I'm aware) has not. Bonella is going by testimony of the inmates... Regardless of Kay Danes opinion attempting to comment on another authour's books on true crimes makes herself more vulnerable for other to critise her books. The other point is that we don't even know if Kay Danes has read it?
Rob, time to learn how to read a dictionary. Maybe prisoners are out of your depth... Bit of a kick in the guts (further) to accuse Schapelle of being a liar...
Morph...
I am going to call all my anonymous posters "Morph" from now on.
Morph, have you been to Kerobokan yourself? If not then how are you in a position to comment?
It is pretty lame to suggest that the only way to tell how it is a hellhole is to have done time in the prison itself. Furthermore, you assume that only Bonella has had access to prisoners and can form an opinion based on those interviews. Maybe, just maybe, there are others who have also had access to prisoners currently incarcerated at Kerobokan. The last time I checked Bonella had not been incarcerated there either, had she?
Your arguments are poor. And, it is just too easy at the moment to dissect them and break them down into the weak components that you cobble together in order to make them look more substantial.
Sad really.
I cannot comment on how Kay Danes feels about people critiquing her books. Perhaps she can answer for herself, if she feels so inclined. The difference is that she is posting under her own name and you, on the other hand, are hiding behind the moniker anonymous. Not hard to work out who has the more credibility here is it now, Morph?
Read a dictionary for what purpose? Why is it that you cannot just humour me and point to the post or comment where I called Schapelle Corby a liar? Is it because there isn't one?
Nope, not a kick in the guts. You are a curious little internet troll. Mildly amusing, but ultimately just a waste of space.
You cannot maintain an argument, you refuse to support your positions, you refuse to answer direct questions, and you seek to misrepresent (some might argue, lie) what I have written with respect to Schapelle's guilt and innocence.
It seems a little strange that you call yourself a supporter, but seem more intent on derailing and alienating alternative support mechanisms and groups of individuals interested in helping out Schapelle. I guess you are insecure in your own self-worth hence the need to post you "positivity" anonymously.
Oh well...
Morph...
It would seem that your latest post also fails to address any of the points that I put in writing in a response to Kay's comment.
This fact in itself, highlights how badly you argue and how steadfast you are in your intention to misrepresent what I write.
Unfortunately for you, no one following this thread and reading the comments is doing so selectively. Simply, when your comments are put into the context of the whole they clearly cast a negative light on the Schapelle Corby supporters you claim to represent.
Sad, very sad!
As I've said time and time again, it wouldn't matter if you were detained in a 5 star hotel, if you cannot go outside and roam freely.... the fact that you have lost your freedom is the 'hellish' experience as opposed to conditions.
Kerobokan Prison is a terrible place but if we are to look specifically at comparisons, it is not as grim as some prisons. For example; in Kerobokan you can pay money and upgrade your cell, buy a fan, buy a bed, get food delivered, even beer, drugs and whatever else you want (sex). You can have a constant stream of visitors and you can actually have contact with them. The cells are not overcrowded and you can participate in sports, recreation, religous studies, further education, visit the library, access computers and other technologies, access phone contact with family and friends, wear what you want to wear (no prison uniform) and get fed a reasonable prison diet. Without your freedom however, all this is immaterial.
Go research some of the other prisons in Asia and you will discover that those prisoners don't have access to even a 1/4 of those benefits in Kerobokan. Some of those prisons require that you are fitted with heavy leg chains for the first 12 months of your sentence and you are crammed into prison cells with others, no bedding, no mattress, no bed... no contact visits with family, no phone, no Embassy for many and those without an Embassy are often forced to perform slave work for other more wealthy inmates...some have never even received a letter from the outside...etc.
There are hundreds of accounts of conditions of prisons as documented by the UN and other monitoring authorities. I have not served time in Kerobokan. I don't need to, just as I don't need to serve time in the Bangkok Hilton (Lard yao), to know exactly what life is like inside. I get to visit such places, and I get my fair share of letters from inmates all over the world and I network and associate with thousands of people and organisations that also do prison ministry. So the conditions are pretty transparent.
Yes Kerobokan is a terrible place. Most prisons are. They're not hotels. Foreigners in particular, who are not used to living in these countries, find the conditions rather shocking at first. But you eventually learn to adjust and over look the fact that you are now washing from a water trough, as opposed to stepping into an ensuite. You are now squatting over an asia style toilet and using a water pale instead of toilet paper... but you know that on the outside of these walls, everyone else, not living in the five star hotels, is doing the same as you. The only difference is that you are behind bars, they're not.
I guess you have to broaden your life experiences Morph... live like the locals. Then some of these issues would seem less irrelevant than the actual issues of; prisoners on death row, mental health prisoners detained in jails, etc...
Kay...
Thanks for commenting and explaining the way you see the issue(s). It seems my internet troll (now named "Morph") thinks you have more gravitas on the issue. So, it is good that you commented.
I have said similar things throughout much of the thread; namely it is a prison and not a summer camp that your parents send you to for the holidays. Some people cope, some people do not. That is the nature of the "game".
I don't know that I have argued that Kerobokan is a five-star resort. However, it is still not the worst prison around the world, not by a long shot.
Yet, I do not see a squat toilet and a pail of water as an outrage against human dignity either. Off topic, I recall many an interesting conversation with my Indonesian friends about the pros and cons of toilet etiquette with regards to toilet paper vs. water and soap.
Schapelle Corby is obviously not coping. My argument has always been that the sentence was harsh, even by Indonesian standards, and that five years is more than enough time for the crime.
Nevertheless, I do not see an immediate repatriation for her either.
In any event, considering those with access to funds have the "opportunity" to upgrade to better beds and services then it is likely that with all the support Schapelle has from her family and around the world that she is in a position many other prisoners do not find themselves in; the resources available to upgrade.
You are now squatting over an asia style toilet and using a water pale instead of toilet paper... but you know that on the outside of these walls, everyone else, not living in the five star hotels, is doing the same as you. The only difference is that you are behind bars, they're not.
HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right!
Rob Baiton, clutching at straws again? You certainly are pathological...
Morph...
I am not quite sure I get the pathological angle. I have asked you questions which you are unable to answer or are consciously refusing to answer.
I also miss the point on clutching at straws as well. Particularly, I do not see any clutching at straws in my most recent response (prior to this one).
Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the pathological and clutching at straws comments. And, while you are at it, perhaps you could take the time to answer some of the questions that I have posed to you.
Morph...
I am surprised though that the best you have to now offer is pathological and clutching at straws.
It seems I gave you more credit than you deserve that you were well-read and versed in matters relating to Schapelle and her situation. This is particularly so when one considers you are avoiding answering some really simple questions on the case.
Anonymous, have you ever visited anyone in an Asian or Australian prison?
The real tragedy is that families of prisoners are the ones who suffer a great deal of heartache and many, financial ruin. Imagine what it must be like to be approaching the age of retirement and then suddenly you are having to find airfares to visit your loved one in a foreign prison. I know as a mother, it would just kill me, if my child was in a foreign prison... regardless of their guilt or innocence. Parents can often overlook many flaws in their children... other people are less inclined to do so. I always ask people... what if that was your son or daughter?
I think Robin Tampoe had the intention to help Schapelle but just lacked the international experience perhaps. Either way, the case was problematic from the beginning so there's no getting away from that.
Rob has been kind enough to express an honest opinion about his view on the case, and even still, he agrees with the main stream Schapelle supporters that five years is long enough and Schapelle should be repatriated either to a local facility where she can receive appropriate mental health care, and then later to a facility back home. The priority should be on her health and how people can assist her in coping until her situation changes. Giving that poor girl false hopes all the time is just plain cruel or ignorant or both!
Jacqui...
I know your question is to anonymous (who I have named but might rename) however even if he/she was to answer yes it would be hard to know if it were true in any event.
I am not sure what the agenda is of this particular anonymous poster is. They do not seemingly contribute in any constructive way to the discourse on either the original substance of the post on Robin Tampoe or to the substance of the thread as it has morphed into a drawn out battle regarding Schapelle's innocence or guilt.
A trip to an Australian prison and an Asian prison might be an enlightening and eye-opening experience for them, no doubt. Yet, if this was an argument on human rights then it is misguided.
The cold, hard reality is that prison is designed to take away your liberty, it is designed to punish, it is (supposedly) designed to rehabilitate, and get you ready for a reintroduction into the community.
It is not, however, a summer camp.
The other cold, hard reality that anonymous does not understand is that Kerobokan is not the standard bearer for hellhole prisons in Indonesia or elsewhere in the world. This is in spite of what Kathryn Bonella might claim in her book. I am happy to say that I have not read it yet, but that I will (haven't been out to the bookstore yet and it has not been out long enough to be on sale either :D).
I am not an authority on prisons, but I have visited a few in my time.
Kay...
I appreciate the sacrifices that families of Australians incarcerated in foreign prisons must make in times such as these.
I often think about not wanting to be in the same position that fate has found those that are incarcerated in. I would not want my son or daughter to be incarcerated, period. I would especially not want them incarcerated overseas, and would do whatever I could to see them returned to Australia.
Yet, the question of guilt and innocence is no longer the primary issue in Schapelle Corby's case. The issue is repatriation to Australian shores and how this can be done.
I disagree with the public strategy that is on show at the moment. My reasoning for this is clear, and has been clear from the outset.
So, has my belief that five years is more than enough time. However, those who support Schapelle must also realize and understand that this is not going to be as simple as, "OK, five years is enough, send her home".
In terms of treatment. I do not see any medical reports convincing the Indonesian authorities that treatment in an Indonesian facility is impossible or unrealistic. The cold, hard reality here is that treatment in Indonesia is feasible. This might not be the option of choice for Schapelle's family or even for Schapelle, but she is still a convicted drug smuggler and it seems unlikely that the Indonesians are going to throw their collective hands in the air and send her home because she has become too much of a distraction or irritation.
I agree. Giving the young woman false hope that a release and repatriation to Australia is imminent is cruel. However, perhaps there is some negotiation underway somewhere that supports the idea that release and repatriation are imminent. I have never claimed to be privy to all the inner workings of the processes in Schapelle's case.
Jacqui, why do you ask this question? (I think you know the answer anyway)
Looks like we're intruding Rob Baition and Kay Danes connection...
We should let them bathe in each other's ego rubbing!
It's quite obvious why Kay Danes would make such claims (read between the lines folks)... I'm not convinced that everyone writes what they truly believe here.
Anonymous...
Are you the same anonymous that has been renamed Morph?
If you are going to invade my house and call me names, then you really should take the time to spell my name right, don't you think?
If Jacqui knows why she asked the question, and she knows the answer, does she know you? Maybe she could let us all in on the big secret as to who you really are.
If your comments were a little less cryptic, then perhaps I and others could follow a little more easily your point of view.
Robbie, I don't think a response was required from you because no one asked you any questions. Bit sad when you're not the centre of attention?
Seems your bored. Maybe a task that could interest you is look up pathological (real dictionary, not your slang terminology sites)... No need to write back about it. Some things take a while to sink in and understand the meaning.
Anonymous...
Unfortunately, you do not get to make the rules on this blog. So, whether your comment needs an answer or not is irrelevant. You post, I respond. If you do not like that, then I would encourage you to cease posting. Simple, really.
If you want to engage with Jacqui in a question and answer session without the knowledge of others, then do it somewhere else. Otherwise, if you do it in my house then I reserve the right to comment and add to the questions as I see fit.
Second, you did not answer the question I posed to you. This seems to be a trait of yours as an internet troll. The return to "pathological" suggests that you are in fact the same internet troll that has been renamed Morph.
Pathological definitions. Would the Merriam-Webster Dictionary do?
It lists three meanings:
1. relating to pathology;
2. altered or caused by disease or indicative of disease; and
3. being such to a degree that is extreme, excessive, or markedly abnormal.
The example to the third definition, which I assume is the one to which you refer, includes pathological liar and pathological fear.
Are you calling me a pathological liar? Or suggesting that I have a pathological fear? Or is pathological linked to a different word? Care to enlighten me?
It is very courageous of you to hide behind the moniker anonymous and call me a pathological [insert word] on my own blog. It is lacking in a little credibility though. Perhaps your attacks on me will serve to highlight why others do not want to become involved in any campaign to help Schapelle Corby get home.
The pettiness and the derision one must endure is pretty off-putting, and quickly makes one question whether it is worth it.
This is sad really. It is sad because Schapelle Corby could benefit from the extra people putting pressure on their local representatives here in Australia to see that her case becomes a constant in the public eye. Not only because of the poor conditions of Kerobokan but because most would agree that she has done enough time.
Nah, I understand pathological perfectly well. What has been slow to sink in is that your manner of attacking me from behind the veil of anonymity does not show you in a good light. It also does not show Schapelle Corby supporters in a good light. This is even more sad than the alienation of potential supporters because the vast majority of Schapelle Corby supporters are good people with a commitment and passion to the cause.
I am doubtful that you share that same commitment or passion. If you did, then you would cease commenting here and cease making the puerile insinuations that you do.
It is important to hope. So, I do hope you take into consideration that I am bored of your puerile little rants, and believe that both my time and yours could be better spent on other things.
Rob,
I think Morph just can't help himself. He is addicted to your blog. LMAO. He is not really interested in Schapelle after all. That much is pretty clear. I think he might be more interested in YOU. hahaha (I'm sorry but it's pretty hard to take those posts seriously) LMAO.
Kay...
I have no idea who the anonymous poster is that I renamed Morph is. In the big scheme of things it does not really matter either.
It is boring that anonymous posters use the anonymity they believe they have to invade blogs and other online places and espouse all kinds of off topic arguments and slander.
This particular anonymous has not contributed anything of substance to the discourse on Schapelle or how best to approach the need to see her repatriated to Australia. To the contrary, he has decided to play the man rather than the ball by attacking me personally and my credibility, skills, qualifications, and the like.
To each their own. But, I really do not see the point of his comments or posts. Is it to try and undermine me because he thinks that what is written in this thread is detrimental to Schapelle? Is it because he thinks there is some need to balance the ledger?
If it is something like that, then the obvious question is, why me and why this blog? I am favourable to the idea of bringing her home irrespective of my personal opinions on her guilt or innocence.
Oh well.
Might have something to do with party line and control issues.
Kay...
Maybe, I do not know.
However, in this case, it would seem to me odd to alienate potential support and knowledge that might help in meeting one part of the overall goal of getting her home.
For example, those that are uncertain on Schapelle's guilt or innocence, but who are utterly convinced that she has suffered enough could be used in the part of the campaign looking at promoting and lobbying for repatriation.
Whereas, those that are utterly and 150% convinced of her innocence could play a large part in the repatriation campaign while simultaneously being a focal point for arguing the evidentiary issues.
The key being not to argue amongst themselves.
Initially, I was all about exploring ways to see what I, and others like me, could contribute. However, now the interest has certainly waned on wanting to contribute.
The interest on writing about the case remains high. The personal attacks on me do not make the case any less interesting or my desire to see Schapelle Corby repatriated.
One has to wonder the logic in continuing in the same old approach which over the last five years has not yielded any positive changes towards Schapelle's situation and in fact, as reported, her health has deteriorated.
It's all about choice, yes. And families do and should have the right to decide how to help their loved ones, but when it is clearly evident that five years on, and that loved one is in an even more tenable position than ever before, you have to wonder where the logic is in continuing to reject expert advice, given freely and in the best interest of the prisoner.
What's it all really about?
Kay Danes method of writing resembles more of a dud politician then a supporter. Maybe you could give Pauline Hanson a run for her money - HA!
What is an LMAO? Is this another prison that you know all about? Interesting that you think I'm a male. Anonymous = male?? Big call. Very strange...
Anyway, what happened to Jacqui? Very random... Then again, that is the nature of this site!
Kay...
My view has always been that ultimately it is up to Schapelle and her family / closest supporters to decide how they want to proceed. That is the nature of the game.
Nevertheless, I also hold the view that it is untenable in the long term to see Schapelle do 20 years for this crime, innocence and guilt aside.
So, my view also includes the idea that Schapelle is still incarcerated, which means one of two things; the current approach is not working or it is not working fast enough.
Therefore, the point of my comments have been not to focus on the evidentiary issues and fair trial, but rather focus on repatriation and how this can be achieved in the shorter term.
If Schapelle and her family want to proceed in a particular way, then so be it. That is their right and it is their call.
I might not necessarily understand why there is no broadening of the approach, but it is of no concern to me personally.
Anonymous...
Makes no difference whether you are make or female; you remain an internet troll!
You continue to return here, but offer up no positive contribution to the discourse on Schapelle, her interests, or how to move forward in light of her depression.
I do not know Jacqui personally, but I believe that she is a real person. I also understand that she is a "real" and "true" supporter of Schapelle Corby.
Jacqui appears here infrequently, but that does not make her any less real or make her a figment of someone's imagination. Even if she is not real, at least she adopted a pseudonym so that she can be distinguished from myriad of anonymous posters!
Maybe if you went and inhabited some Schapelle Corby forums then you might see Jacqui a little more regularly. I understand she is a regular contributor to other forums.
Perhaps, you might be served a little better if you became a little bit more informed.
I will let others explain LMAO. But, that said, your comments are always worth a chuckle for their puerility.
To Any One (Still) Reading this Thread...
I have received an off blog email from Morpheus at www.schapelle.net which is said to be a "cease and desist" order with respect to prohibiting me from using the reference Morph.
He believes that by naming the internet troll who has decided to inhabit my blog Morph, was a direct (or indirect) reference to him as it is an abbreviation of his pseudonym, Morpheus.
Morph in a very general sense is used to indicate the changing of form or shape. It comes from the word Morpheus. Morpheus was the Greek God associated with dreams, and who was also a shape-shifter.
Morpheus is also a character in the Matrix Revolutions, and a character in Neil Gaiman's Sandman comic series. Morpheus is also the pseudonym of many individuals that inhabit the cyber world that blogs and other social networking platforms operate in.
To be clear, the naming of the internet troll was not in reference to Morpheus of the http://www.schapelle.net/morpheus.html fame.
It was merely a reference to the idea that the anonymous poster that was renamed Morph had chosen to morph from a real person into an anonymous internet troll intent on trying to provoke a rant or a response from me and others by defaming them on this blog, and in this thread.
It was also an allusion to the idea that this simple post on Robin Tampoe had 'morphed' into a completely different beast focusing on issues unrelated to Tampoe.
As a courtesy to Morpheus of www.schapelle.net I will refrain from referring to the internet troll here as Morph. I have not worked out what I will call him / her yet instead of Morph, so watch this space.
More personal attacks....mmmm boring. I really don't know why Annonymous bothers.... must have nothing better to do with their time.
I lived many years in Asia... it's pretty common to use the word 'He' in reference to people of either gender. Strange??? The only thing strange is that Annonymous claims to be a Schapelle supporter but as Rob says, spends more time attacking others then he does promoting Schapelle's plight.
If Annonymous find this site so offensive, why bother coming here? Or does he like cyber harassing people he can't thought control?
LMAO
Kay...
As I have said before, I find the anonymous internet troll that has come to inhibit this thread to be mildly amusing. I would add that the mild amusement is often tempered with a good dose of boredom.
It is boring because it is like listening to a broken record or for want of a better analogy; whacking a CD in the CD player choosing a song and pressing repeat.
There are other things to describe the boredom such as "one trick pony" and the like. But, I figure much would be lost in terms of effect as most would need to be explained in detail first.
Why anonymous is here and continuing to comment is also of mild interest to me. Unfortunately, any questions posed to the individual are ignored or avoided. Is anonymous here and commenting because they feel there is a need to balance the ledger in terms of coverage? Are they here because there is a need to correct factual errors in what has been presented?
Or are they here, simply, to be a pain in the proverbial (aka arse)?
I do not feel all that bullied, threatened, or even harassed by this individual. Anyone who now wants to go back and read the almost 660 comments on this thread will see that I have been polite and courteous in spite of the personal attacks on me and others. I have been patient. I have wondered out loud about certain posters and their respective identities, and I have allowed people to clarify that they are not certain posters when others have come into this thread pretending to be someone they are not.
So, the questions I pose to anonymous are simple ones; "what is your objective in commenting in the manner that you have been doing here?" and "what do you hope to achieve by attacking me and some others in your comments?"
With respect to time. I always have time to respond to any comment posted in this blog. After all, it is a hobby, blogging, and I enjoy it (in spite of the comments on this thread).
Rob...
Have you EVER wondered if the Anonymous poster might be a NAMED poster, who is posting here as an Anonymous person. Creating an illusion a second person is posting bad comments about them when in fact it is the named poster.
Is it possible this can happen, how would you know.
Shannon...
Yes. I have considered this. However, the point of giving the anonymous internet troll the name that I did was to highlight the fact that it could be any real person adopting or changing form into something else. This would include someone who already posts here under their real name or a pseudonym pretending to be someone else in order to do what is being done.
Shannon, to all intents and purposes, it could be you using that logic. I do not know you any better than any of the others who post here under their "real" names or pseudonyms.
There are people who post on this blog (not on this thread) who use pseudonyms and I know them personally in their non-pseudonym form.
How would I know? Well, I have a collection of IPs in an ever-expanding log file and I am working with people much more tech savvy than myself to associate certain IPs with specific comments and then cross-check that data.
If it is someone routing through multiple servers across multiple continents, then this, I am led to believe, will be much harder. Although, I am reliably informed for the techno wizards I am working with, not impossible.
Yet, if someone is going to that degree of trouble to disguise themselves, then one would have to wonder at their motivations, particularly as I am generally promoting a pro-repatriation position for Schapelle.
It also sounds like some grand conspiracy of which this blog is not worthy in the sense of it is just a blog of my views and opinions on subjects that interest me.
Oh well.
In any case, I think people's motivations are pretty obvious. Those who have something to hide keep morphing. I don't think we should worry about them... just stay focussed on the facts.
You're right Kay Danes. Stick to the facts.
Fact 1:
Pauline Hanson (no I am not a supporter of hers) at LEAST had the courage to build support by going on Dancing with the Stars. She was no Ginger Rogers but she gave her best. By going on, she gained a lot more support for what she is famous for, being in polotics.
You may want to reconsider declining this. Also, what is your dance experience? If you are too advanced it could make it a little more tricky getting on.
May Pauline be your inspiration.
Lived in Asia may years. hmmm. No wonder your thinking is corrupt.
Political people pussy foot around talking in circled. This is how Kay Danes attempts to write. At least Bonella has the courage to say things as they are in her book, that is the Indonesians are cold, heartless bastards. Sad fact.
Annonymorph,
This blog site is not about me and not about promoting me, as Rob has told members of the Freeschapelle forum previously and numerously. this Blog is about Robin Tampoe being struck off the lawyer list in Queensland and then the blog morphed into discussion about whether or not Schapelle Corby should be repatriated to a mental health facility.
These are the facts. I believe that Rob has a separate blog for people wishing to discuss Bonella's latest book 'Hotel Kerobokan'. Perhaps you should visit that blog and promote your great affection for that journalist's work.
Your post about my living in Asia and hence 'No wonder your thinking is corrupt' is not even worth responding too except to say, that I feel sorry for you.
Politics and diplomacy are complex and international affairs are complex, hence why people study these so that they can have a good understanding. If you care to educate yourself then perhaps you wouldn't have so much difficulty understanding what others are saying when they discuss such complex matters. I encourage you to become more globally aware. You never know, you might actually see that the world is not black and white.
I know many Indonesians and they are wonderful people. One should not judge everyone the same because of the actions of a few. The same is in any country. I wonder, have you ever travelled overseas? Have you ever thought to go live in poverty and help others who have very little? this experience might change the way you see life. Yes it is very sad but even tho many of the Indonesians are poor, there are many who are beautiful, caring and concerned that drugs are destroying their society. Their authorities have a challenge and I don't envy them for the difficulties they face.
Anonymous...
I cannot even be bothered to come up with a pseudonym for you. Most of what popped into my head were not really fit for publication.
Are we still on DWTS? Are you suggesting that there are similarities between Pauline Hanson and Schapelle Corby with respect to developing popularity (or notoriety in Pauline Hanson's case) among the masses?
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the original discussion about DWTS regarding whether Mercedes Corby should do it?
Why make this about Kay Danes? I have asked before that commenters refrain from attacking other commenters to the blog and this thread.
This thread is not about Kay Danes. It is also not about Kathryn Bonella, it is also not really about Schapelle Corby. It is a thread about Robin Tampoe.
It is a cowardly act to attack someone from behind the veil of anonymity like what you are doing here.
These attacks against Kay Danes must stop. I am an eternal optimist and believe that every human being has within them some common decency. Please, show yours and refrain from attacking other commenters to this blog and / or thread.
You are a rude and ignorant individual.
There is no correlation between living in Asia and corruption, either of ones thoughts or deeds! Living in Asia can certainly broaden one's perspectives on life and the things that are important.
No, Indonesians are not cold, heartless bastards. You have generalized to the extreme and in effect undermined any argument you might make on how Schapelle Corby has been treated.
More to the point, have you ever lived in Indonesia (aside from a couple of weeks in Bali)? Do you have any Indonesian colleagues or friends? Have you ever bothered to talk to any Indonesians and listen to their hopes and dreams for themselves, their families, and their country?
As I said, your comments here display a degree of rudeness and ignorance that undermines any contribution you might think you are making to this thread or to the movement seeking to see Schapelle Corby repatriated to Australia.
Sad, very sad!
Kay...
Yes, perhaps some of the anonymous commenters to this thread should broaden their horizons and comment in the appropriate threads.
Perhaps things might also go a little better for Schapelle, with respect to lobbying for and succeeding in securing medical treatment in a specialized facility and eventual repatriation, if some of these so-called supporters learned a little about Indonesia and Indonesians.
What's happening with the case? Schapelle is in a very bad way... What is the latest update?
Anonymous...
Some places to find updates of what is going on in this case:
http://www.freeschapelle.com.au/
or (perhaps)
http://www.schapelle.net/index.html
Or just a simple Google search will turn up plenty of results. There have also been some recent stories in Woman's Day and the Women's Weekly (I think) looking at how Scapelle is coping after five years of incarceration.
There has also been some recent TV coverage in conjunction with "Hotel Kerobokan" which was written by Kathryn Bonella (who was also instrumental in Schapelle writing her story, which hit bookstores as My Story).
Hope that helps.
Seems your motivations are less then genuine.
We've worked out you are pathological. Seems that Kay Danes is quite vindictive. She's also a little miss know it all. Kay is also trying to undermine Bonella so that she can sell more of her own books. If you don't like what someone is saying about you - don't respond.
Maybe Kay and her friends can all have a hotel at Hotel K since she likes it so much. Just steal some rice crackers and you'll get 5 months. Torture and a ride in police car come free.
Anonymous...
With all due respect, I thought after a couple of days I might have been free of you. You are an internet troll.
You contribute nothing to the discourse on the topic at hand. You come to bait people and slander and defame.
That said, if you think I am going to let you have the last word, then I am guessing we will still be trading verbal barbs into the tens of thousands of comments.
It would seem that the pathological person here is you. It seems that you have a pathological fear of answering questions put to you. The questions I have posed to you have been simple, requiring simple answers, yet you have not seen fit to answer any questions.
Nope, the pathological you want to frequently refer to must be some kind of Freudian projection that in fact says more about you than it does me.
This is not a post or a thread that is about Kay Danes. She is free to comment as she has done to date. The vindictive person seems to be you. You are the one hiding behind anonymity and trying to slander all comers. Very weak on all fronts.
Kay can answer for herself if she feels the need to respond to an anonymous internet troll. However, the idea that Kay is trying to undermine Kathryn Bonella in order to sell more of her own books is absurd.
It is absurd for many reasons, but none more so than the risk to her credibility. Yes, I believe she has credibility. You on the other hand have none. You are a simple internet troll who appears intent on undermining any chance that Schapelle Corby has of release and coming home.
Shame on you.
Your final comment is puerile in the extreme.
But, as I have said, you want to have a go at me, then bring it on. This is my home and I make the rules. You will refrain from attacking others and slandering others. This includes Kay Danes. You want to grind your axe with Kay then go to her site and do it there (if you have the testicular or ovarian fortitude to do so).
Any comments that you make that attack others from now on will be saved into the special file I have and matched up to your IP for future reference, and then deleted.
Have a nice day!
Hi Rob,
I think you are right... and there's really no need for me to defend myself against this internet troll. The allegations are absurd and clearly troll knows even less about publishing then he/she does about prisoners and foreign internment. Sounds to me like someone is just jealous and it's rather bizzare because for all the work I do throughout the world the only one I've been attacked by are people from 'that' forum. I wonder what that says about them.
Oh... BTW... I don't need to rely on royalties from books... I have a wonderful husband who provides my every need! :-)
Kay...
I find it sad in just about every way. This person, this internet troll, in a round-a-bout sort of a way claims to be a Schapelle Corby supporter. But, there is nothing in any of the comments made by them that indicates that they have even the slightest degree of understanding as to what Ms. Corby is up against.
The best that they can come up with is some personal attacks on those offering an alternative view as to what might work while conceding that ultimately any decision on how to proceed is one for Schapelle Corby, her family, and her closest supporters (also probably close family and friends).
The only other thing offered up is some Indonesian bashing of the most general kind; all Indonesians are evil and bastards. Yep, I can see how that might help Schapelle.
However, to each their own.
What remains true is that this little internet troll has no idea of the priorities or things of importance in this case. Simply, if they did then they would not be here wasting time on petty jealousies and cryptic references to pathological.
Sad, very sad.
Agree Rob. Some people just can't help being melodramatic. I just feel sorry for Schapelle being surrounded by such fruities.
Kay...
Not even sure if it would qualify as melodrama.
Then again, I was reading in the paper that she has a boyfriend. This I did not know, which is sort of indicative of how closely I am following her incarceration beyond the depression.
Where is this website advertised etc... That is, where do people find/hear out about it?? The whole project/site is very vouyeaustic.
Funny how Kay says that she doesn't need to defend herself with allegations etc... Then proceeds to anyway? Sometimes the whole vindictive thing comes out while doing so. Glad you like trolling. Maybe you and Rob could troll out some Schapelle songs together since you are so like-mind!
I think the readers would prefer to know what she is like as a dancer...
This Rob guy, don't even go there. Claims he's a Schapelle supporter whilst also calling her a liar!!
Annonymorph ... I think you might need to see a GP for your condition. It's apparent you need some help 'mate'.
Anonymous (Part I)...
You are a real funny little internet troll. Your posts read like you enjoy a few wines (or beers, or perhaps a shot of tequila or two) while you write. You simply have no idea of how to contribute to the discourse on either Robin Tampoe's striking off of the Roll of Solicitors or going forward how to lobby to get Schapelle Corby out of jail.
You seem intent on making personal and vindictive attacks against one particular poster. The personal attacks against me are amusing because it highlights how little class you have with respect to maintaining an argument.
You have still failed to answer a single solitary question that I have put to you. Is that because you are an internet troll with no answers? Or is it because what you say has no substance and therefore you have no answers? Or is it because you think that people are going to be fooled by your ducking, weaving, and general deception when you do post comments here?
My apologies for taking a while to respond. I have a life and I have been out most of the day.
This is not a website. It is a blog. A quick Google search might lead you here if you type in the "right" search terms / key words.
This is not a project nor is it a site. It is a blog. Voyeuristic? How so? It cannot be because I post about Schapelle, is it? There is nothing voyeuristic about her plight is there?
Or is it the scantily clad women that inhabit these pages in amongst more serious posts on things that interest me. I think you will find that the all of these posts have explored significant legal issues. Perhaps you should read a few more of the posts to get a feel for what this blog is about.
Then, you might be able to pass / make more informed comments on what it is about.
Anonymous (Part II)...
Now, onto Kay Danes.
What part of "this blog and this thread are not about Kay Danes"? I do not think that I can make it any simpler for you. You must refrain from attacking posters / commenters to this blog.
If you want to have a go at me; bring it on. I reckon I am more than up to the verbal stoush.
Kay Danes is not defending herself, rather she is enlightening you on some of the finer points of writing and publishing, which you so obviously do not (at least in your writings here) have the faintest clue about.
Nah, nothing vindictive in Kay's posts. She posts under her own name, which is more than can be said for you. You, on the other hand, are cowardly in the manner in which you launch your attacks from behind the veil of anonymity (or at least you think it is anonymity - but blogs allow you to track IPs and my geeky Indonesian friends can do much better than just track IPs they can connect IPs to people. Apparently, they want to do this for free, particularly when some cowardly internet troll labels all Indonesians as being evil, lacking in compassion, and to all intents and purposes, stupid :D).
No threats or promises here. Just a friendly reminder that anonymity on the internet is not what it is trumped up to be. Yahoo provides private personal data of its users to the Chinese government (so I have heard), and Google recently handed over information about an anonymous blogger in the US.
I can see you have not bothered to look up what an internet troll is. But, suffice to say, if you want to persist on the idea it has something to do with singing, then the analogy would be that your song, and your ability to sing, are both poor. You best hope that the ring-in crowd are far more supportive (might keep you in the competition for another week).
Nope...I am pretty certain that most people do not really give the proverbial rat's arse one way or the other on the dancing front. But, if you think so, then so be it.
Oh dear. Is that the best you have; "this Rob guy, don't even go there"? Really?
Once again, my question to you is, point to the post where I called Schapelle Corby a liar. In any event, she remains a convicted drug smuggler.
The arguments here have generally been with respect to "has she done enough time?" and "should she come home?"
Both these questions you have failed to contribute to.
Kay...
I will just delete any future posts from anonymous that make mention of you.
Whoever it is really just does not get it. They do not understand blogging. They do not understand the issues in the Schapelle Corby case.
Perhaps they should just "cease and desist" in terms of visiting this blog.
I just don't get it with some of these people... they claim they support Schapelle but then anyone who disagrees with them or isn't 100% pro Corby family or a huge fan of Bonella or New idea Magazine, are ridiculed, attacked, abused, harrassed, undermined etc... these troll types seem hell bent on distracting people from the real issues so how can they claim to be supportive of Schapelle?
Where is this advertised? How do people hear about it? Funny for Kay to be dishing out defamatory advice when the only advice to her has been postive - that is applying for Dancing With the Stars!!
Don't bite the hands that feed you.
Kay...
Sort of the point I have been making all along. I never, to be honest, thought that a post about Robin Tampoe would attract quite so much attention.
Nevertheless, it is mildly amusing, albeit boring the longer it goes on, this idea about what constitutes a "real" or "true" supporter. In my mind, anyone that is committed to seeing the young woman out of jail is a worthwhile supporter. Yet, for some, I guess this is not enough.
Anonymous...
Bored?
Depending on whether you are the same anonymous that has been posting the puerile and defamatory statements on Kay Danes, but if you are, then the answer is, Yes!
Anonymous...
What are you talking about?
Where is what advertised? And where do people find out about what?
If you are referring to this blog, then I have answered that question previously. Some of your comments are not addressing the current issues or are repeating previously answered questions.
You need to do better than that.
There is nothing defamatory about Kay Dane's advice here in this thread. They are observations by someone experienced in matters of this nature. The fact that you do not agree with the statements is hardly sufficient to make them defamatory.
Seriously, the advice about DWTS is positive? How so? If I am not mistaken, the DWTS issue came up in this thread with specific reference to Mercedes Corby.
I am not sure that it is your hands that are feeding Kay Danes and her family.
Even for an anonymous little internet troll you really do need to grow up and get away from the puerile little insults that you are trying to dish out here. For two reasons, they do not work and you are so obviously out of your league.
Sad really!
There's nothing defamatory about stating what can be proved and there's certainly enough evidence out there to support this. As an individual, I have every right to state my opinion on Rob's blog so long as I abide by his house rules. I have certainly not said anything that would harm Schapelle, to the contrary, I've always been supportive of her plight as has Rob.
Question to Anonymorph... what's your motivation? Do you think it's time for Schapelle to come home?
Kay...
Good luck with getting an answer to your question. I have not had any luck so far in getting any answers to the real simple questions that I have posed.
There's nothing defamatory about stating what can be proved and there's certainly enough evidence out there to support this. (KD quote)
I totally agree with you. However, what specifically are you talking about. What 'can' be proved. Please don't go back to the innocent/guilty thing.
Please explain Ms Danes...
Funny how you are accusing unknown people of having conditions when you make public that you regularly see a counsellor.
In answer to your question:
Schapelle should have never spent one night in jail.
There is NO justice for anyone brought before an Indonesian court in any way shape or form. Once you are before a court you are dead in the water. UNLESS you know how to work the system.
That often takes a lot of money $$$$. And it works. Sometimes.
Schapelle and her family had NO IDEA that this is the way it works.
There is NO fair trial in Indonesia.
There IS corruption RIFE from judges to customs, police, lawyers, prison guards.
No matter that Dee and husband were prepared to support Schapelle there was no way the Indonesian judges would have accepted that. They are just not like us - in a civilised judicial system.
They are living in an uncivilised system and taking all they can get until the bubble bursts. Which it may do.
They need to supplement their meagre incomes. And that they do most effectively. Day after day. In court.
They read books while evidence is being given, lawyers talking. They have already made up their mind. As they did with Schapelle.
They have already made up their minds depending on what 'graft' they have been given by the lawyers.
And 'graft' it is.
They are 'feathering their own nests' at the cost of lives in Kerobokan.
Rob, you're in the clear. This is about Kay Danes.
Anonymous...
I might be in the clear in your view, but I have a question and an opinion on what you have written.
How is it that you sort of answered Kay's question, but you can never answer mine?
I am guessing your answer is yes to the question about Schapelle coming home.
Are you certain that your generalizations about Indonesians and their justice system hold true without fail?
To be clear, I am not arguing that there is no corruption or that money talks. I am questioning whether it is as "RIFE" as you state it to be.
How many court cases have you attended and witnessed outside of the Schapelle Corby trial?
And, assuming that it is more than one, is that sample sufficient to sustain the generalizations that you have made?
I was referring to the previous post when the annonymous poster said I was giving defamatory advice. It was nothing to do with commenting on innocence or guilt.
I do not regularly see a counsellor. Where do you get that assumption from?
You state "There is no NO justice for anyone brought before an Indonesian court in any way shape or form. Once you are before a court you are dead in the water. UNLESS you know how to work the system."
Clearly you are ill informed. If this were the case then no foreign investor would ever do business there!
Schapelle and her family no exactly how it works in Indonesia. Even Mercedes said in My Story that she raced to the airport with cash in hand when you discovered Schapelle had been arrested! Are you suggesting Mercedes is a liar?
What makes our judicial system so much more civilised? You need to spend some more time learning a thing or two. I know plenty of lawyers in Australia who have cases as long as your arm, longer, where people have been denied justice. The problem being that in any judicial system there are complexities, loopholes, failings.... no system is perfect anywhere in the world.
Schapelle's legal case was a foregone conclusion given that her legal representation was poor.
Most of the prisoners in kerobokan are there because they have committed crimes or are you saying they are all innocent? If they are then I would strongly recommend they contact Fair Trials International who closely examine the facts of cases, make determinations, and then offer representation where there has been a clear injustice. I wonder why they have not involved themselves in Kerobokan if there are so many injustices there? mmmmm
Oh and one more thing....Miss Annonymorph .... Interstingly your post is identical to the post by Toucha/Gaille Willaims from Freeschapelle forum. Are you plagiarizing her work or what? hahaha
http://www.freeschapelle.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=33899&sid=24c9419e84277a3f9bb9444ee5ae5b44
Kay...
I am not quite sure where to start.
Yes, the last comment from anonymous highlights that they are woefully informed about Indonesia and the Indonesian justice system.
The Indonesian justice system is far from perfect. No one is arguing that it is. It is however far from being the worst justice system in the world.
Even those beacons of democracy and individual freedom and liberty such as Australia, the US, and the UK have problems in their respective justice systems as well.
Yep, Mercedes knew well enough that this had the potential to get very ugly, fast. Sadly, it did. However, I still maintain that they were poorly informed on the rules of engagement. It simply is not as simple as turning up with the cash.
It has always been interesting to me that in support of Schapelle the argument has always sort of by default been that all inmates in Kerobokan have been shafted by a corrupt system.
Yes, why are investors still doing business in Indonesia? seemingly in spite of the travesty of justice perpetrated against Schapelle Corby and her fellow inmates of Kerobokan?
Kay...
On the identity of the anonymous commenter. The person who goes by the name of "Toucha" over at the Free Schapelle Forum has contacted me off blog on a number of occasions stating unequivocally that they have not been to my blog (visited). By my reckoning this would mean that they have not visited for more than a month.
However, it is clear that the last comment from the anonymous poster is exactly the same, verbatim, with a post attributed to Toucha over at the FS Forum.
Now, if Toucha has been here commenting as an anonymous poster then those personal communications with me have been lies. Furthermore, if these comments as an anonymous are attributable to Toucha then these comments clearly reflect badly on the FS Forum.
If Toucha has not been here, then it would seem that someone has a deep fascination for Toucha's opinions and comments over at the FS Forum and have decided to copy and paste them around the blogs in cyber space.
Funnily enough, anonymous posters are not nearly as anonymous as they seem to think they are. Everyone leaves a trail somewhere. How difficult that trail is to follow depends on the knowledge and the skills of the individual.
Nevertheless, the constant bagging of Indonesians by this particular anonymous poster annoys the hell out most of my internet savvy friends in Jakarta and they all seem intent on "uncovering" the identity of this particular anonymous poster. It is worth noting that the defamation, libel, and slander laws in Indonesia are very accommodating of those making complaints.
Oh well.
Rob,
Generally if Gaile has something to say then she doesn't mind coming out and putting her name on it. I've thought about what you have said and think that it is possible that someone else, viewing that forum, could simply copy her work and post it in here to make us think it is her. If that's the case then that is truly sick! I'm sure Nev will investigate this as it does reflect badly for the forum. Whoever it is, they clearly are not a supporter of Schapelle!
Kay...
It is all a little weird to me, particularly if it is a cut and paste job by someone trying to impersonate a FS Forum member and undermine the FS Forum. I do not see the point of that.
Anyways, it is too bad that the anonymous poster never finds the time to answer my questions that I pose to him/her. Oh well.
Hi Rob,
It's weird alright. I just know one thing and that is that all the attacks I've ever come under have only come from one place. I'll leave it at that.
congratulations on actually having the likes of Kay Danes read your trite Rob. Enjoy your time at FS.
Your previous abrasiveness/harsh views and ridicule to Schapelle can be forgiven. Fresh start.
Let's not waste time.
Kay...
Yes, and it would seem that they are continuing. Sad!
Anonymous...
It would seem that it has been a few days between posts for you. Computer problems? Or has it just been too hot to take the time to sit down in front of the computer and type out your ramblings and rants that serve no positive purpose for Schapelle.
Trite? Really? I wonder what you have contributed to the dialogue on this issue other than to seek to defame others and cut and paste posts from other sites without proper credit. I wonder who the trite one is?
Funnily enough Kay Danes has a considerably larger amount of credibility than you will ever have. If I had to guess, it is this fact that bothers you most; Kay Danes has credibility and you do not.
You think that dropping by the FS Forum is a fresh start. Seriously, you need to get a grip on reality. There is hardly anything fresh about rehashing the evidence and the continual bashing of all things Indonesian. Nevertheless, it seems that Nev has started up a new part to the forum for those that think Schapelle has done enough time but do not give a rat's arse about her guilt or innocence.
I would encourage you to go back and look over my comments from the start of this thread. You will see that this is something I have been advocating; those supporters who are 150% convinced of Schapelle's innocence seeking to incorporate those not so convinced of her innocence into the movement. The new element of the forum seems to be a victory for common sense don't you think?
I have no been abrasive, harsh, or ridiculed Schapelle, to suggest otherwise is a misrepresentation at best and an outright lie at worst. You really do need to pick up your game on this score.
You certainly are doing more damage to Schapelle and her cause than anyone else I have had the (mis)fortune to engage with on this topic. This is sad because your posts as anonymous in fact reveal who you really are. The icing on the cake was the cut and paste job from the FS Forum. But, the clincher is that there are things in some of your posts that have only been mentioned in private correspondence between myself and others off-blog.
Oh well.
Rob, Go back to Indonesia, your manner of dealing with things may be more appreciated in (let's just say) a society like that.
I wonder if it actually is the real Kay Danes here or just an imposter?
As for this Rob, hasn't quite reached those dizzy heights. haha
Has the Corby family actually approved this site? If so, can we please have some proof?
Anonymous...
Not only are you a very silly little internet troll, you have very little understanding of what constitutes a website and what constitutes a blog.
This here is called a blog. It does not need the Corby family permission to run. The blog is not about them. Then again, you might not have been able to tell that considering you have not bothered to read any of the other 1300+ posts that are here.
If I am not mistaken, there are less than a dozen posts about Schapelle Corby and her plight. You do really need to read a little more widely before making a fool of yourself with comments like "Has the Corby family actually approved this site? If so, can we please have some proof?" Once again, I do not need the permission of the Corby family to post what I have posted here.
As to whether it is the real Kay Danes or an imposter; well you will just have to keep wondering won't you. But, what we do know is that whoever you are, you do not have any courage whatsoever. You continue to post anonymously and cut and paste pieces published elsewhere under a pseudonym as answers to questions posed to you here.
What dizzy heights? The heights of being an imposter? or the heights that you have ascended to as an anonymous poster hell bent on derailing any chance at freedom that Schapelle Corby might have.
You are a very sad excuse for an internet troll. You have contributed nothing to the dialogue or discourse here. I am sure you post in other places as well, and I am equally certain that you contribute very little to the dialogue there as well.
You seem to be capable of repeating the assertions of others but have no real opinions of your own. You think that verbally bashing all things Indonesian makes some kind of logical point (it doesn't).
It would seem my ideas are appreciated here. One of my ideas from the outset of this thread was that there was a need to look towards critical mass in the fight to get Schapelle repatriated to Australia.
This critical mass would need to co-opt those people who could not care less about Schapelle's guilt or innocence, but who believed she had been punished enough. The creation of a new forum as part of the FS Forum seems to say that some others tend to agree.
Enjoy your weekend. I believe it has been very hot in your part of the world.
Happy to PM you my mobile number Rob if you want to verify that I am really me. Unlike our friend here, i've no need to hide.
Has the Corby family actually approved this site? If so, can we please have some proof?
I take that as a no. Shame on you Rob. Some of us would not have the hide to do this to prisoners...
Kay...
No need!
I would reckon that if you were someone pretending to be Kay Danes that the real Kay Danes would be here in a shot giving me the straight and narrow on identity. Who knows maybe I have already emailed the real Kay Danes and asked her for some clarification :D
Anonymous...
I have got to hand it to you, you really are a bright one. Yes, it is most definitely a "no".
I do not need the Corby's permission to blog about them or more specifically Schapelle.
Nope, no shame on me. I have a right to blog about her case and her plight.
What exactly is it that you would not do to a prisoner? Say that she has done enough time and deserves to be repatriated?
You really are a poor excuse for an internet troll, aren't you? But, I guess what you do have the hide for is to defame, slander, and libel any and every person that has an opinion different to yours. And, more to the point your hide is in fact the veil of anonymity.
You have no hide at all. You are a coward.
But, have a nice day.
'We' ... does that mean there's more of you.. or are you speaking for a group... or just multiple personalities???
Rob's not doing anything to harm Schapelle... unlike others! He's actually been quite patient considering the level of abuse he's copped for no particular reason. I'm sure Schapelle would be aghast to some of the stuff that's gone on... at least I'd like to think that she would. One could hardly imagine she'd be against anyone who was saying five years is long enough!
You're right Rob. 'Legally' you may be able to get away with what you are doing. However, it is HIGHLY unethical.
I can understand you don't like the Free Schapelle forum because of the myth busters that you love to believe. Yes, we have worked out you love your gossip magazines.
You're not required to enter your opinion. And, neither am I. However, one big difference. The Corby family gave permission for that to go ahead.
You don't have a conscience doing this. I despise this site and don't like the damage you are trying to cause with your corrupt Indonesian friends.
I suppose Kay really appreciated you doing websites about her while she was incarcerated... And, yes, I would have been shocked to have seen such a thing without getting approval from the Danes family.
Anonymous...
I really should take the time to give you another name, but your comments are just to out there at the moment for me to bother with it.
Now, whatever are you talking about? I am breaking no laws in posting what I post here, am I? Now, if it is highly unethical, then please explain how it is highly unethical? Which Code of Ethics am I violating?
It is not highly unethical. If you are trying to suggest that people with legal training cannot comment on the Corby case, then you obviously have not done your research. There are a number out there who do.
So, get a grip on the reality that is at play here.
Who said I did not like the FS Forum. I find it an interesting and entertaining read. It gives some good insights as to how the "true" believers go about their business. My not joining in there has nothing to do with whether I am pro or anti FS Forum.
Once again, it is probably a good idea to get a grip on reality at play here.
Gossip magazines? Really? What in this thread evidences such a thing? Be specific. In fact I have agreed that some of the "facts" surrounding the Corby case are myths. So, once again, get a grip on the reality at play here.
Opinion is not based on any particular requirement. If I have an opinion then I am allowed to express it. If you disagree with my opinion, then you are free to voice your disagreement. You must acknowledge I have been particularly tolerant of your defamation to date in the comments you have made to this thread.
Your use of "we" suggests you are a forum member. Why not identify yourself? If you truly believe in Schapelle, the wishes of her family, and what is needed going forward, then come out of the closet. Reveal yourself.
Once again, this is not a Schapelle Corby blog, it does not need her permission or that of her family. The idea that every single piece written about the Corbys must get their prior approval before being published is nonsense. Nonsense in the extreme. It shows how detached you are from reality.
A conscience? Whatever do you mean? Posting a comment on the Schapelle Corby case equates to not having a conscience? How so? I am arguing for repatriation so where is the lack of compassion and conscience in that position?
If you truly despised this blog (once again it is not a site) then why bother coming here? Why bother commenting? Why bother highlighting how woefully out of touch you are with the current needs of the case at hand? And, why bother highlighting your prejudices of all things Indonesians?
But, I am not doing any damage to Schapelle or the cause for repatriation. Although, I would add that a campaign to see her home by Christmas might give rise to false hopes that this is something that is a "reality" waiting to happen, and it is clearly not. That said, it is worth a shot.
As a matter of interest, what does my blog and my Indonesian friends have to do with anything relating to Schapelle? You really are not in touch with reality, are you?
I was not blogging back then. I am guessing that if I was then perhaps I would have blogged about Kay Danes as well. And, no, I would not have sort her or her family's permission to blog about her plight.
However, if I was purporting to speak on behalf of her or her family, then clearly I would have sort permission.
Yet, I have never proclaimed to be speaking on behalf of the Corby family. So, simply, permission is not needed.
There's nothing unethical at all if people want to say enough's enough for Schapelle and she should be repatriated or at the least, moved to a mental health facility in Indonesia where she can receive appropriate mental health care, if that's what she needs. This is all Rob has ever said, aside from defending himself from the deranged ramblings of certain persons who hide behind a mask of anonymity.
I think certain others have more of a passion for gossip magazines... after all, Rob doesn't have a publicist sealing any deals on exclusives!
Talking about exclusives..... just because you/them/whomever may have some sort of dialogue with the Corby's, does that mean that you do their talking for them? Have they instructed you to do as you are doing and try to destroy what little support there is out there for Schapelle? I think not.
If you despise Rob's blog so much then wouldn't commonsense say "stay at your FS forum where you can preach all you like to the 'true believers'" and stop being so nasty to others who support Schapelle? This really is undoing all the good work being done by a handful of good people at that Forum.
Why do you always make this a personal attack on me? Is it because you can't control me or because I won't believe everything you say, or that you are intimidated by me or some other sick reason?
Had Rob been on the scene when I was unlawfully detained in Laos, then my family would have welcomed his support, and would have put him in touch as they did with others, with our lawyer to properly channel that support. Hence I'm home and within 11 months!!!!!
See what can happen when you do things the right way and when you have a Government that supports you, and believes in your innocence. Engaging the right support is key to securing the most successful outcomes.
Your continued personal attacks on good people in this blog are just disgusting. How can you claim to have so much compassion for one single human being, and yet be so vindictive to others? You really do yourself no favours. I feel very sorry for you - new name for you: Windy-annonymorph!
Kay...
I think the most likely scenario is a mental health facility in Bali. Repatriation is a long shot in the short term.
I think what triggered the vitriol was that I made an argument for her being guilty. I constructed this argument in a really narrow framework. However, some of the "true" believers take it as a personal affront to suggest their poster-girl for good and decent Australians has been convicted in a court of law and found guilty.
There is no doubt the argument has drawn the pseudonyms out of the woodwork to brandish about their positivity and other pearls of wisdom.
Nope, I don't have a publicist as I do not have a story like Schapelle Corby's so I do not need to marshal the troops for an all out assault on the gossip tabloids and mags nor for cover shoots on Ralph.
I am just a fella who thinks she has been convicted, the verdict is sound in the Indonesian legal sense (more may well have been demanded had she committed the offense in Australia), and she has done enough time for the crime. And, have written as much here.
My point has always been that I have no contact with the Corby's, I am not doing their bidding, and I am not in need of their permission. I have an opinion, I am entitled to write it down, and others are entitled to disagree.
The idea that this is legal but unethical is a joke of the highest order. I still smile just thinking about the idea that this is unethical. I imagine what this is meant to mean is that it is unethical for anyone with legal training to make an argument for guilt. What else could it be?
I agree, there are some real serious people over at the FS Forum who through their writings are seemingly well-informed and well-intentioned, then there are others wasting time about some kind of axe that Alexander Downer has to grind or how KRudd is a wimp. I really do not see those as being sustainable approaches to attracting "new believers" to the cause.
The personal attacks on you are bizarre as they are so obviously ill-informed. Amongst men it would be called penis envy (so amongst women what would it be?). It seems that the axe that anonymous has to grind with you is that you are far more accomplished than they will ever be, you have the ear of important people, and you obviously get things done. A little bit of tall poppy syndrome; cutting down to size the successful people to the level of mediocrity of others (those leveling the criticisms) perhaps?
I nearly headed to Laos on a development assignment for a couple of years back in 2000. But, other things came up and I ended up doing something different.
But, I would have written about you for sure. I would not have asked your permission to do so (sorry), but would have been willing to be channeled with respect to my energies as they relate to justice.
I now wonder whether it is about getting the girl "home" or whether it is about proving her innocence and bashing Indonesia as much as one can into the bargain? Because, if it was about getting Schapelle home then there are alternative approaches that are just as effective, if not more so.
Yes, it is a little weird that this particular anonymous poster claims to have so much compassion for one person but cannot spare a little bit for others.
Oh well.
BTW, I am not going anywhere near that new name as I would be sure to get a cease and desist email off blog and some other idle threats about screen captures being taken and the relevant authorities notified...
I think some should devote more energy to learning about the topic they are so passionately discussing. Even when certain pieces of legislation state one thing, and the authorities do the opposite to what's written, is part and parcel of the complexities of a foreign judicial process. You have to take the emotionally charged ideals of western culture "Justice will prevail" and "The Innocent should not be punished".. and work within the realities of what can and cannot be achieved in a foreign judicial process. Hence why 'professionals' in this field tend not to stand on soap boxes shouting and waving their fist, demanding such things. They know that there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's the ill informed that don't get it and hence we see people suffering more than they ought.
WARNING: ROB BAITON IS RUNNING AN UNAPPROVED WEBSITE AGAINST THE CORBY'S INTENTIONS. ROB MAY CLAIM TO BE CARING BUT HAS NO INTEREST IN HELPING THIS CAUSE.
HE IS SCARED OF PEOPLE DISCOVERING THE TYPE OF PRICKS WHO RUN INDONESIA.
One question Kay:
Would you like Rob to have been putting websites about you up at the time of incarceration saying that you are guilty? You didn't compare within the context of the original post on this issue...
Anyway, I'm sure you are both texting/talking and having fun from connecting through this site...
Kay...
I could not agree more. And, in light of the anonymous comment that follows yours, learning more would seem to be just the tip of the iceberg with respect to what needs to be learned.
Although, that said, there are some people involved in this case that do have an appreciation for the intricacies of the needs in order to see Schapelle free. Unfortunately, that does not include the little narrow-minded internet troll that has come to inhabit this thread.
Yes, there is more than way to skin a cat, and unfortunately for anonymous this has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
In the eyes of the Indonesian judicial system Schapelle Corby has been tried and convicted, she has exercised her right to appeal, cassation, and case review. What is left is clemency. This has been debated in some detail in this thread.
Maybe it is time to focus on Schapelle's suffering and trying to find some common ground with Indonesia in order to secure her treatment at a specialized facility and her eventual repatriation.
I am not sure that I need the Corby's permission to say that, do I?
Anonymous...
I am not sure that I should out you just yet as this is too much fun. I am not much of a tech wizard, but I have plenty of friends who are and who have an interest in protecting their honour when someone thinks they are just a bunch of pricks! Nice language by the way.
I think I need to be pretty blunt in my response. How stupid are you?
This is a blog (short for weblog). This blog is not about Schapelle Corby. Once again, I encourage you to count up the total number of posts and then count the number of Schapelle Corby posts. I think you will find that Schapelle Corby features very little here.
I do not need the permission of the Corbys to run this blog. I do not need their permission to write entries about Schapelle Corby or the state of her case or the need to see her repatriated. To think that I do is ludicrous.
As for whether I care. That would seem to be that I care enough that I am prepared to face up to the crap that you post every time and make an argument for the fact that it no longer matters whether she is guilty or innocent, but what matters is seeing her treated for her depression and at some point in the future repatriated.
Now, if I am not mistaken the FS Forum which you represent has added in recent times two sections to their forum. The first is a "guilty" section where people who think she is guilty are invited to join up and then state their reasons. Last time I checked it had only attracted the interest of regular forum participants. Probably because no one is into getting verbally abused in the manner which you have exhibited here.
The second section was added by the Forum Administrator. This section is to encourage people who think she is guilty to participate in the campaign to see Schapelle treated and repatriated.
It might be time that you became a little bit more informed of what's in your own backyard before you come round to my house and try and engage in a pissing competition!
Really? You think I am scared that people might discover the type of pricks that are running Indonesia? Perhaps, now would be a good time to have a little read of the rest of this blog and get educated. That you silly little internet troll is the furthest fear from my mind.
I really do not see the point in saying this again, as it seems like I am having a one way conversation with a stone. But, here goes.
Schapelle Corby has been tried and found guilty as charged. She is a convicted drug smuggler / importer. She appealed that sentence, it was reduced, it was appealed again and then raised back to the original level.
She is guilty in the eyes of the Indonesian law. This is a statement of fact, not an opinion. If you had read a little more closely the posts in this blog about Schapelle you would get a little bit more informed and you might even be able to work out what my opinion is. But, unfortunately you are all talk and no substance.
Once again, this is not about Kay Danes. This is about Schapelle Corby. However, I might add if the circumstances were the same then I might have written similar things (no offense intended Kay).
Yet, what I do know is that there were plenty of smart people involved in the Danes' case, both in Laos and in Australia, and that the family was committed to doing what it needed to and not what they wanted to. Maybe this is a subtle difference and maybe this accounts for the vastly different outcomes.
However, Kay can answer for herself (if she wants to).
Sounds like we are a little paranoid, aren't we little internet troll. Why are you worried whether Kay and I are sharing texts or messaging? More conspiracy theories perhaps?
You really do need to go and find someone else to share your positivity with.
Internet Troll: Plenty of people had discussions online at the time of our case. It's what people do. I was more interested in trying to survive the torture, mock executions and ill treatment to be bothered by it.
I have no interest in making this blog about me as I have said to you repeatedly. Certainly I fail to see any comparisons between my case and Schapelle Corby's. So i cannot entertain your delusions.
What good are you to Schapelle Corby anyway? All you seem to do is be malicious to others.
Kay...
In some ways I am sure that I should be apologizing to you seeing you have become the focal point of one particular anonymous poster's petty rants. But, on the other hand it highlights how badly some want to control the circus that the Schapelle Corby case has become.
Simply, there are plain decent folk out there who would love nothing better than to help Schapelle Corby in any way that they can, but when they put their respective hands up to do so they suffer derision and other abuse at the hands of those who call themselves true believers.
It would seem that the idea is that anything posted about Schapelle must be micro-managed through the family. The only problem is that this will never happen. People write stuff about stuff all the time, and provided it is not slanderous or defamatory then it is even more unlikely that it can be stopped.
I, and people like me, are certainly the wrong targets in this little charade that is being played out in the mind of this little internet troll. However, this little internet troll is certainly a bad advertisement for true supporters / believers everywhere.
It is funny in that perversely sad kind of a way that this particular internet troll is resorting to name dropping in a vein such as issuing a warning that this blog is not approved by the Corby family.
Here is the thing, I am struggling to find the similarities between your case and Schapelle Corby's case. Here is the other thing, you survived and, at least to outside observers like me, you have prospered in the sense of you have regained your life and done many wonderful things with it to date.
I would hope that Schapelle Corby gets that chance to survive her ordeal and to prosper. But, after five years it is time that the realization dawned that whatever has been done to date has not worked, and it is time for a different approach. Nevertheless, I appreciate that this is a matter for Schapelle and her family and closest supporters and advisers to deal with.
Then again, what would I know? After all, I am somebody not approved by the Corby family to comment.
I'm fairly certain that most people reading your blog Rob will be amazed at the veracity in which you have been targeted by a so called Corby supporter. No doubt they will be very confused as to why anyone would attack you for saying 5 years is enough!
Just saw yet another New Idea Magazine featuring Schapelle.
"Schapelle Home for Christmas").
http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/new-idea/
Inside: Mercedes talks about how Schapelle is innocent, lack of fair trial and due process, Schapelle's not being treated properly, etc, etc... then says her mental health condition is okay because of the medication (but not for long).... more talk on how unfair the trial was and sentencing... gives an example of another case where 2 brothers in Indonesia were sentenced to 5-6 years for trafficking 8kg of marijuana... more talk on the strategy that isn't working.... Dr Philip's report has been ignored by the government (says New Idea)... and they ask why won't they take the report seriously, etc, etc. Dr Philips says his report should be taken seriously and that Schapelle has a mental illness..... New Idea spoke to the offices of the PM, Malcolm Turnbull, and Anna Bligh. The PM's office referred them to Stephen Smith. Everyone (except Bligh, who didn't respond) gave the same response - i.e. they monitor the health of Australian prisoners overseas, get them the appropriate treatment (e.g. hospitalisation), they cannot interfere with the legal processes of other countries, the only way Schapelle can come home is for a PTA to be put in place which will take time.
Is anyone surprised that these New Idea stories are not working to bring Schapelle home. When you government states publicly that the only way you're coming home is via a PTA that's not even in place.... doesn't that tell you something?????
Change tact? Get people involved who know what they're doing? mmmm ... oh but I think the horse is well and truly bolted!
Kay...
I have maintained all along that for similar offenses, even by Indonesian standards, this was a harsh sentence. However, it is also a sentence that fits within the discretion of the prosecutors to ask for and the judges to impose.
If the Dr. Phillips report is an accurate reflection of Schapelle Corby's current mental condition, then yes there is a good argument for five years having been a sufficiently tough lesson.
Nevertheless, that is still a call that the Indonesians have to make on the issue of whether to release her or not, and on what grounds, and under what conditions, if a release is to be made.
Kay...
The home for Christmas idea is an interesting one. One would have to assume that those supporting it and arguing for it have some inside information that suggests to them that this is a real possibility.
If this is just a hope on hope story, then it is cruel and unusual. Why would one want to publicly state an outcome that is fanciful, give rise to false hope of an imminent release to a person in a fragile state of mind? Seems strange to me, maybe I will have to buy the magazine and read the whole story.
I am guessing that the story has been approved by the Corby family (unlike this thread or my blog)?
On the two brothers. Were they "trafficking" the wacky weed from Aceh to Jakarta? If they were, then that sentence might reflect that this was not an international importation. Yes, yes, yes, I know all the evidentiary arguments that stem from "we will never know where the wacky weed came from because it was not DNA tested for place of origin".
It is kind of interesting that the next move seemed to be the only move with respect to the Phillips report. Interesting in the sense that there seemed to be a genuine belief that once the report was published then people would start falling over themselves to see Schapelle released.
The government reaction is hardly surprising, well at least hardly surprising to me. The government is not going to interfere in the internal legal processes of Indonesia. The reason is simple, what sort of chance of success would you give Indonesia of being able to interfere in the legal processes of Australian.
The Hendra Rahardja case is a prime example. Here is a fella who was convicted and sentenced for embezzling many millions of dollars (USD 300 million at least I believe), and despite Indonesia protestations the man was processed according to the prevailing laws and regulations of Australia.
My final point would be this. even with a PTA there is no guarantee that it would necessarily cover all prisoners incarcerated overseas. That is why these negotiations take time, hammering out the detail.
I believe the article said it was importation. Again, New Idea fails to make an appropriate comparison because I'm fairly certain that the two brothers didn't begin a tabloid and television media campaign to convince authorities to go easy on them. As we all know, a prisoner could have twice as much Ganja as what Schapelle had, but the final sentencing is very much determined on the conduct of prisoner and representatives. That's just the reality of these countries!
Kay...
Point taken on the importation and trafficking terms. But, it is a little hard to import the wacky weed from Aceh to Jakarta...so, I was trying to point out it needs to be trafficked or smuggled.
But, I should be more exact in the terms I choose to use in describing the comparison.
Rob,
Without reading the actual transcript of their case, it's difficult to know for sure what they were charged with. Many people assumed that Schapelle was charged with trafficking when in actual fact the charge was importation. So it could be a similar situation in the reverse for them. As I said, difficult to know for sure when all anyone has to go on is the information gleaned from a media report. As we have seen repeatedly, not everything printed is fact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSJduGWvpzg
Shannon...
I have seen it already, but thanks for the link.
Maybe others might be interested in viewing it.
One of the problems with that link Shannon is that it lacks credibility in so far as presenting credible arguments to any Government.
For example; the person speaking does not list their qualifications or give any indication as to their affiliate. So therefore, this could just be someone paid to say whatever the Corby's want them to say.
See: Australian Story as an example; the lead commentator who makes the introduction is a known figure, lists her name and her position in the program. 'Hi I'm Caroline Jones....' so the viewer knows who she is, as a credible commentator and they know that she is associated with ABC Australia Story... another credible entity.
Secondly, the woman in your Utube presentation states things that are not substantiated ie: Schapelle has repeatedly slashed her wrists.... in order for that statement to have any credibility or weight, there needs to be evidence of it. Otherwise it's just perceived as something the family are putting out there in order to generate public sympathy. Where is this documented? It would carry more weight if you could substantiate this for example 'As can be confirmed in Consular Reports to the Australian Government...or as documented by the Prison doctor in his prison report dated xyz..... submitted to the Australian Government'....unfortunately, Dr. Philips repeating in a tabloid magazine about something that he was told by a family member is just hearsay and hardly carries any weight despite his qualifications. The whole concept of launching a humanitarian appeal via a tabloid magazine is rather naive to say the least. It compromised the entire integrity of the appeal itself.
I'm afraid the Utube presentation is rather weak (no offence to those making it because obviously their intentions are honourable). But realistically, no government is going to act on the impassioned plea of an unknown person who has no recognised affiliation to the case or stated credibility in the field of discussion ie: an esteemed member of the justice community etc...
The impassioned plea of repatriation merely 'she's suffering' or 'she could die' are not overly compelling arguments to present to a government. These are common place in these situations. The most compelling arguments are non impassioned, they are carefully crafted, well thought out, logical, legalistic, structured and balanced.
Her plea, though obviously heartfelt may generate some sympathy to a minor demographic but to those who operate on the basis of facts, evidence, judicial process, law, etc.... who make the decisions, are seldom impressed by the passion of an injustice. After all, one working on such cases must ensure emotion is removed in order to present a strong legal case. The argument of humanitarian appeal is a serious undertaking and should be presented by people who have a good understanding of how to implement it. Save all that energy being wasted on Utube appeals that really fall short of the mark of what they could achieve had they been put together by more experienced people who have a true grasp of these realities.
Kay said...The argument of humanitarian appeal is a serious undertaking and should be presented by people who have a good understanding of how to implement it.
Kay are you personally qualified to do the above?
Ha... it's a known fact, hence why I get requests from Government departments, lawyers, universities, media and NGO's etc to make representations on particular issues and cases.
I understand that you might not appreciate my comments about your URL campaign.... the concept is a good one but the script is pretty weak. I mean absolutely no disrespect.
Would someone please teach some Aussies the English language. Here's a wonderful example of gobbledegooK: "Unfortunately, you are all about talking about the past in wanting to focus on the evidence and insanity pleas and the like. I have almost exclusively focused on the future and going forward what happens next.
The future is the future if you go forward and what happens next will also happen in the future. So just stop the sentence at future and I will know exactly what you are talking about.
Hi Darby,
Not everyone that contributes to this blog have English as their first language. Others just write as best they can. At times it is difficult to understand what people are actually trying to say but for the most part, they are pretty clear... although there are some who do keep playing the same old broken record I'd admit and others.... well....
cheers, :-)
Kay...
Thanks for the comment and your opinion.
As I said, I have watched the link. It does not say anything new that the "true" or "real" believers / supporters have not said before.
I would agree, it would be helpful in knowing who this person is, if for no other reason as to give some gravitas to the video.
Shannon...
I believe Kay has answered this question in some detail.
Kay...
Open and frank discussion is always a plus. The necessary side-effect of that is that some people are not going to like what others have to say.
Such is life.
Darby...
Thanks for dropping by and leaving a comment. Constructive criticism is always appreciated.
I believe that the quoted comment was one that I wrote.
I am not sure that it is a "wonderful" example of gobbledygook. Yes, the future and going forward may be construed as being one of the same. However, in the context of the comment, the future was referring to all things yet to be done, and going forward was referring more specifically to the immediate future.
Perhaps this was not as clear as it should have been. Perhaps a comment in the appropriate place might have resolved the apparent confusion.
Now only if you would comment on the substance of the thread in its entirety.
Kay...
Indeed. However, the comment was one of mine. The last time I thought about it, I am pretty sure that I came to the conclusion that English was my first language. :D
Although, I guess in the positive column, if the best Darby has got to criticize me for in this thread is my language ability, then that is not such a bad thing.
Thank you Kay, you are right but I hate that new expression - started I believe by the BBC - "going forward" when it's obvious it's about the future. I've actually heard someone say "tomorrow....going forward...will see some big changes..." Next it will be "last week...going backward...was a time to remember!"
Rob Baiton said...
Shannon...
I believe Kay has answered this question in some detail.
I disagree with you Rob.
I asked if Kay was personally qualified, her answer is.
Kay said... it's a known fact, hence why I get requests.
Let me clarify and make my question clear.
Kay Danes are you Professionally Qualified to do what you do. Do you have any Human Rights Degrees... please see list below.
A simple YES or NO will be fine.
Thank you...
Human Rights Masters Degrees: MA, MSc, LL.M.,Phd
1. Master's Degree in International Human Rights Law.
YES/NO
2. MSc Human Rights & International Politics.
YES/NO
3. LL.M. in Human Rights & Constitutional Practice.
YES/NO
4. International Masters of Human Rights and Social Development.
YES/NO
5. Master in Human Rights and Humanitarian Intervention.
6. Master in International Humanitarian Action.
YES/NO
7. MA Conflict Studies and Human Rights.
YES/NO
8. MSc in Global Ethics
YES/NO.
Kay said... I understand that you might not appreciate my comments about your URL campaign.... the concept is a good one but the script is pretty weak. I mean absolutely no disrespect.
I mean no disrespect and I am not upset. But how do I know you are truly qualified to give an professional opinion?
Rob... before you jump in put your lawyers hat on for a minute and ask yourself, why am I asking Kay to clarify her Professional qualifications?
Shannon,
I work in, what I consider to be a professional field, education. Therefore, I work with “professionals”. However, this does not always mean they (professionals) are professional or knowledgeable in the field. Often I find, that those (not all) with numerous fancy papers, in pretty little frames, posted on their walls really don’t have a clue what is going on because they are either no longer or never have been in “the trenches”, while others who have managed to get that “certificate” are sometimes clueless on how to apply their credentials. A degree doesn’t guarantee that you’ll know what to do when push comes to shove. How many people do you know with the degrees you listed above have actually worked with governments on successful prisoner negotiations, repatriations, writing PTA’s, etc…? A degree neither guarantees respect nor can it be demanded from those (gov’t) who actually make decisions. Respect is earned and I believe that Kay has done just that. Kay said, “It's a known fact, hence why I get requests from Government departments, lawyers, universities, media and NGO's etc to make representations on particular issues and cases.” You may not, but apparently governments, lawyers, universities, media, NGO’s, etc… obviously consider her to be a learned professional and seek out her advice, input, expertise, etc… One should think that their opinion is really what matters. I neither know which degrees she holds nor do I care. What does concern me is how well-respected, accomplished and knowledgeable she is on the subject matter.
Shannon, what is it that you do?
For clarification purposes:
professional
adjective
1 [ attrib. ] of, relating to, or connected with a profession : young professional people | the professional schools of Yale and Harvard.
2 (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime : a professional boxer.
• HAVING OR SHOWING THE SKILL APPROPRIATE TO A PROFESSIONAL PERSON; COMPETENT OR SKILLFUL : their music is both memorable and professional.
• WORTHY OF OR APPROPRIATE TO A PROFESSIONAL PERSON : HIS PROFESSIONAL EXPERTISE.
• informal derogatory denoting a person who persistently makes a feature of a particular activity or attribute : a professional naysayer.
noun
A PERSON ENGAGED OR QUALIFIED IN A PROFESSION : professionals such as lawyers and surveyors.
• a person engaged in a specified activity, esp. a sport or branch of the performing arts, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.
• A PERSON COMPETENT OR SKILLED IN A PARTICULAR ACTIVITY : she was a real professional on stage.
Rob,
How long are you (lawyers in general) required to maintain the records of your clients? Does that timeframe remain the same if you are representing (even if you are merely advising) someone outside of Australia? (similar to Tampoe's representation of Schapelle)
You know it's so funny... in all the years I've been speaking at US Congressional Forums, Congress never asked for my formal qualifications, nor did the UN Special Rapporteur when he asked me to submit a report on secret detention...I guess they took the endorsement of my credibility from other notables and government as 'good enough'....but yes I do have qualifications... and if I were applying to you for a job then I'd be more than happy to send you my CV. Those who engage my services have a good understanding of where I'm qualified to speak/advise and where I'm not.
Sorry Rob ... again it seems to have turned back to a topic about Kay Danes....
Leann,
I wouldn't hang out for an accurate answer from Rob on your questions for client records. You honestly think he has been telling the truth throughout all of this??
Rob is running this without ANY consent from Schapelle's family and/or legal team!
Leann,
Unless specifically requested, lawyers are not obliged to store files after the completion of a matter. It's usually standard practice that they destroy those files after seven (7) years from completion.
Rob's blog is not a Corby blog. This just happens to be one topic in the many hundreds he has blogged on. If it helps bring reason and logic to her plight then I think it's good.. as opposed to those so called supporters who mindlessly attack people for having an opinion contrary to theirs.
Rob has only ever posted that five years is too long and she should be repatriated. He doesn't need permission from anyone to say that and I'm sure Schapelle would be grateful that he is!
Anonymous...
It would not hurt to adopt a pseudonym, would it? That way I can distinguish you from the others who seem intent on maintaining the perceived cover of anonymity by not opting for one.
The beauty of language is that it is alive and the way that people use it to convey points might not always be to your liking but it does not necessarily make it gobbledygook either.
It is interesting that you chose not to respond to me considering your initial criticism was directed at me.
Such is life.
Shannon...
You are free to disagree with me if you wish.
However, expertise is not always paper-based (degrees at Masters or PhD levels). Expert testimony can be taken from anyone who can demonstrate expertise in the subject matter that they are about to testify or provide comment on.
I believe, degrees or not, Kay Danes has expertise in the areas on which she comments (I am probably not alone in holding this opinion).
I was not wearing a lawyers hat.
In any event, I think Leann has provided an adequate and detailed response on the pros and cons of professional or other degrees and qualifications.
Leann...
Thanks for the comment. I reckon it about sums it up.
Leann...
I believe Kay has gotten in before me on this one.
However, if there is a need for further explanation and direction to particular law (in a detailed advice kind of a way) then this can be provided, but I would have to refresh my memory and do a little reading to make sure what I knew back when remains valid now.
I have been out of Australia for a long while, and only recently returned.
Kay...
Yep, it seems that there has been a return to the Kay Danes bashing of the past. I find it amusing in that sad kind of a way. But, I guess the tall poppy syndrome still exists out there in the real world.
Or maybe, it is just a simple case of anyone with a differing "view" must be put back in their place?
No need to post your CV. I do not ask anyone else to post theirs.
Shannon, Leann, & Kay...
I might add this. If pieces of paper in the form of degrees were the pre-requisite for commenting on any case, or just the Corby case in particular, then by my reckoning there are not that many people commenting on forums around the place that are commenting from fields of academic expertise that is recognized with a degree.
The FS Forum would be a case in point, would it not? Come to think of it, there must be some serious questions asked about, for example, whether Schapelle Corby is in fact suffering from life-threatening depression or whether she is just having a hard time adjusting to prison life.
Dr. Phillips says that she is in trouble. In contrast, those doctors and prison authorities that deal with Schapelle every day agree she is doing it tough, but do not consider her depression to be life-threatening. To the contrary, they consider it treatable within the prison environment. Furthermore, if it worsens then the doctors that treat her on a regular basis believe that the next level of intervention would be to send her to a mental health facility such as Bangli.
I do not have a degree in psychology (I did start a subject or two as part of an undergraduate degree), but considering I have no "expertise" in this field, I have a dilemma - do I go with Dr. Phillips or do I go with Dr. Thong?
Similarly, do I have more faith in Kay Danes based on her experiences and acknowledged "expertise" in the field or do I go with Shannon who is an unknown quantity of unknown experience who seems to have a personal beef with Kay Danes commenting on this blog or directly or indirectly about the Corby case?
Oh well.
Anonymous...
Oh dear anonymous, the little internet troll has returned. I thought you had lost interest and decided to do as you promised. It is amazing that you really have not contributed anything to this discussion except prove that there are some diehard Schapelle Corby supporters out there who really do not know what has gone on, or is going on. You are an embarrassment to the cause you allegedly support.
The question on client records has been answered. As I said, if you need more then feel free to contact me and we can work out a fee for the services provided. That fee might not necessarily be cash. Your real identity would do!
Now, on to the lying front. If I have lied on this thread about Schapelle Corby, then feel free to point out the lies. A specific comment would be nice. If it is indeed a lie, then I will suck it up and apologize, publicly.
Now, if you cannot point to a specific comment, then you have two choices; reveal yourself or go away. Either way is fine with me.
As for needing the Corby's permission. You really do need to get a grip of the situation at hand here.
This is not a Corby blog. I encourage you to count how many Corby related posts are here, count the total number of posts on the blog, and then do the math.
The suggestion that one needs to get the permission of a person, their family, or their legal team to write an opinion or make an interpretation of facts in the public domain is so funny that it beggars belief. You evidence with this sort of comment your total lack of understanding of blogging, social networking mediums, citizen journalism, and a whole range of other issues.
Perhaps instead of the faceless allegations of lying and the like, you can find the real courage to reveal yourself and do this without the perceived veil of anonymity.
The funny thing is that this blog tracks IPs and I have some happy-go-lucky geek friends who have been helping me put together IP profiles of the anonymous commenters to this thread.
They have been keen to do it because most of the anonymous commenters have contributed nothing to the thread, at least in a constructive sense, as they have been to focused on defaming me or others and bashing Indonesia.
So, coming out of the internet troll closet is really neither here nor there in the big scheme of things. Although, one commenter has suggested to others off blog that they are too smart to be uncovered, perhaps we will see :D
Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
Kay...
Thanks. I need to check and update my knowledge on this particular issue of obligations to keep files.
Having been away for so many years it is not something I have kept totally up-to-date on.
In the Indonesian context, there has been some movement on certain fronts with respect to FOI and other legislative developments.
But, as we can see from the Corby case, the evidence can be destroyed on an order from the court once all the appeal avenues are exhausted and the decision is final and binding.
I remember quite sometime ago, before Robin Tampoe was struck off, suggesting Mercedes seek to obtain the case files from Tampoe. I explained that this would be a good strategic move because it would have, most likely, revealed what any instructions, requests, correspondence he entered into with various third parties. Depending on what that revealed, it could have been useful as part of a legal strategy back then, possibly to use in the judicial review. A rather standard method in any judicial process.
Clients should always make sure they obtain their case documents at the conclusion of matters; when changing lawyers etc... you just never know how useful that documentation can be. Likewise, FOI documentation between Consulate and Australian Government... it's always interesting to read. Most of the time the prisoner/family find out that there is so much more going on behind the scenes then they ever give the Department credit for. Yes it can be costly ($)... but it is better to know exactly what went on, who said what, who did what, who relayed what information to whom etc... then to just assume the Government doesn't 'care' or 'act' or 'do anything'.
Rob,
Interestingly, some people think that Schapelle's case can be taken to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). This is not the case.
See: FAQ at this link:
http://www.icj-cij.org/information/index.php?p1=7&p2=2#2
2. Who may submit cases to the Court?
Only STATES are eligible to appear before the Court in contentious cases. At present, this basically means the 192 United Nations Member States.
The Court has no jurisdiction to deal with applications from INDIVIDUALS, non-governmental organizations, corporations or any other private entity. It cannot provide them with legal counselling or help them in their dealings with the authorities of any State whatever.
However, a State may take up the case of one of its nationals and invoke against another State the wrongs which its national claims to have suffered at the hands of the latter; the dispute then becomes one between States.
The Australian Government will NOT take up Schapelle's case to the ICJ. There have been, in the past, more convincing cases that would border on eligibility however, even then, the Australian Government would not do so. Bilateral Agreements, Trade Relations and Regional Stability, National Security take precedence over the individual rights of citizens.
I see New Idea have featured Schapelle on the most recent edition of their Xmas magazine. From the comments it isn't doing anything to generate any sympathy for Schapelle. In fact, to the contrary, most are questioning why she's being singled out.
Schapelle has written a note to the New Idea readers in perfect handwriting. Kind of contradicts the forum supporters claims that she is out of her mind and doesn't even know it's Xmas or that she is incapable of writing.
I really don't understand the motivation behind this $$ campaign in New Idea. Have they learnt nothing from their dealings with Indonesia?
Nasty. Very Nasty Kay Danes.
No-one thinks the letter was written by Schapelle without significant help. That would only occur to someone who wanted to undermine her.
"contradicts the forum supporters claims that she is out of her mind"? Foul. She is in a shocking state and you post this reality as though it is just the claims of supporters. They are not claims. Are you calling one of the country's leading psychiatrists a liar?
"$$ campaign"? Foul again. This is about trying to save a life and you poison it as usual.
Pathetic.... What kind of humanitarian are you???
Edwin de Wit ... of course anyone who says anything contrary to what is purported by FS Forum is considered nasty or ill informed. That's because some people can't see the forest for the trees.
I have no wish to undermine Schapelle, to the contrary, pointing out how she is being undermined by $campaigns is nothing new and certainly nothing that most Australians haven't figured out for themselves. These $campaigns are only turning people 'off Schapelle' ... You only have to troll thru the feedback online to see what affect the $campaign is having. IT is undermining Schapelle's chances of endearing her to the Indonesians, who are the ultimate decision makers.
No I am not calling Dr. Phillips a liar. These are your words not mine. I do however think that his position has been undermined by the tabloid approach.
Me Poison the case? I'd say five years on and situation unchanged is the result of choices made by those claiming to represent Schapelle's best interest... clearly, given the current situation, one has to question the insanity of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. No poison in that ... just an observation... oh... and I am entitled to make them you know. Like everyone else, I'm entitled to my opinion on a blog.
Funny how Rob's blog posts just keep ending up on a certain forum. And all the attacks on Rob's blog only stem from that one source.... so who is humanitarian now?
Re: New Idea
by tigrisfeline » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:55 pm
Found this on the net written by someone who claims to be a humanitarian, What do you think??
http://www.freeschapelle.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3813&start=20
"of course anyone who says anything contrary to what is purported by FS Forum is considered nasty or ill informed. That's because some people can't see the forest for the trees. "
Kay
This has been pointed out to me as a statement by you, which you know is not true. There are many good people on the FS forum who can see all sides of the position. Because the forum chooses to support what the family has done, does not say that what anyone who is not a forum member does, is correct or incorrect. Whoever trolled the forum and lifted that quote will also know that it was removed just as quickly as it was posted. In fact if you troll the forum you will see my comment on posts from other blogs.
Please note that I do not wish to continue this conversation and do not frequent this blog. So I will not be reading your answer. But when the FS forum is denigrated in any way then it is my duty to protect it from unfounded allegations. With over 950 members and several thousand more on my mailing list, you are impugning their integrity. I am asking you to stop.
All...
I am going to answer these posts one by one. Apologies for not wading in earlier, I was enjoying watching and waiting to see what transpires. Ultimately, when it is all said and done I think there are more important things to be done such as formulating a coherent plan to get the young girl home.
Kay...
I have not read the New Idea article. That said, I was in Woolworths earlier today and looked for it, I did not see a copy (I guess it must be flying off the shelves)...
The idea that NI has the exclusive suggests that there was a transaction involved. I am guessing that the Corby family benefits from that. I would also be expecting that the money the family is generating from these exclusives is going to further the cause of getting Schapelle released from Kerobokan, or alternatively going towards funding the "upgrades" that money seemingly can purchase in Kerobokan (according to Hotel K by K. Bonnella).
The idea that Schapelle is coherent enough to write a Christmas letter to NI readers runs counter to what is published within the pages of the FS Forum.
I recently read a post there of a visit some forum members had with Schapelle. If this was an accurate account, and I have to assume that it is, then there is no way this letter could have been written by Schapelle (perhaps she is taking her meds and this makes all the difference?)
I have not bothered to look at any recent surveys, but the last one I did read highlighted that sympathy for Schapelle and her plight continued to dwindle among the general Australian populace.
Time for a change? That is up to the Corby family.
Edwin de Wit...
Thanks for dropping by and leaving a comment. All comments are appreciated, even when they are lacking in substance and seem intent on attacking the character of a previous commenter.
Personally, I think that these sort of attacks undermine the support that there writers allegedly have for the poor girl incarcerated in Kerobokan. But, to each their own.
I have not read NI. Does the NI article imply that the letter was written by Schapelle or is it explicit in saying that the letter was written with help or it was written by someone else after having corresponded with Schapelle? Maybe you can enlighten me?
Nobody has called Dr. Phillips a liar. However, it is worth pointing out that the diagnosis coin has two sides. Dr. Thong, her Indonesian doctor and the doctor that sees her more regularly than Dr. Phillips, agrees that Schapelle is depressed and anxious. Medication has been prescribed for her, and by all accounts if she takes that medication she will be as fine as someone in jail can be.
I did not read Kay's comment (or the comments of any others) that said Dr. Phillips was a liar.
Really? The campaign is about trying to save a life? If that is the case, then wouldn't it be an all out effort to get as many people on board as possible without the need to resort to "exclusives" with one magazine?
Nah...what is pathetic is that Schapelle is still in jail after five years and others are still making money off of her suffering. It is not rocket science to be able to work out that if after five years of the same old same old there is nothing new to report, then perhaps it is time for a change of strategy.
Kay...
What I find most interesting is that anyone that does not hold a particular view or dares to question the wisdom of continuing an approach that is not working is ridiculed.
To me that simple does not accord to the suggestion that the free schapelle movement is growing and making inroads. I would have figured that the idea would have been to open the support network up to whoever wants to help. Perhaps from a simple humanitarian perspective people would agree that five years is more than enough.
I believe five years is more than enough. I am not interested in arguing the evidence and the facts over and over again because five years being enough time has nothing to do with her being innocent or guilty.
Sad really that some supporters seem to be more interested in playing the person rather than the ball.
Kay...
It is funny in that sad perverse kind of a way. The forum members that I have had contact with have sworn blind to me that they are not interested in what I write, do not care what I write, and consequently never visit my blog.
Oh well...
Nev...
You are always welcome to post your comments here.
Which reminds me. Not so long ago a post that found its way to this blog originated on the FS Forum (and remains there on the FS Forum to this day).
This is interesting because the person who wrote it on the FS Forum, Toucha, swears blind she has never been back to my blog after an initial foray under her real name.
The comment was cut and pasted from the FS Forum and posted here anonymously. Now, Toucha also swears blind that she did not post the original at the FS Forum and therefore is not responsible for that comment appearing here.
You were supposed to contact me about this, or at least this is what I was told. I only raise it because if what was said at the time was true then the FS Forum has been hacked (and this would give rise to integrity issues, don't you think?).
Apparently, you have my email. Feel free to contact me if there is any need with respect to that particular post.
I hope that you and yours have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Maybe next year Schapelle will be home to enjoy it with her family and extensive group of supporters.
Rob,
I think some have your blog on speed dial or whatever the internet term is.
As for Neville Wright, I am aware of numerous screenshots of the slanderous posts that his supporters have made on his FS Forum both in the public forum and private forum(s) that completely contradict what he is purporting here. All of which has been passed to my lawyer, and to the appropriate authorities, including Government. Nev knows full well about these posts despite his attempts to delete them, and has been repeatedly warned, about the continued public attacks on me that come from a narrow minded group of supporters on his forum.
They seem to spend far too much time stalking me then helping Schapelle!
I'm sorry but I'm not into blindly following conspiracy theories and half cocked $campaigns which in the minds of some of these narrow minded people is akin to having a secret agenda. Where they prefer to attack people, I prefer to suggest that Schapelle's team need to be more tactful and diplomatic, utilising Government and key figures who have experience. I'm not into crystal ball gazing to make predictions that she'll be home by Christmas, when legally it's impossible.
If they don't attack their 'targets' they think they are doing nothing. They lack real world experience. They get exactly the same replies from government no matter who is in power... they wonder why Schapelle's situation has never improved. I feel sorry for her indeed.
As I said, I've no wish to become a 'true believer' ... what good does it do Schapelle to have 1000, 2000, or even 20,000 fundamentalists campaigning for her rights if the rest of the world thinks they are misguided?
Kay...
The beauty of screen captures ;)
Yes, they do, don't they? It is kind of bizarre to me that there is this fixation on you.
My point would be that if Nev is serious that there are good people on the FS Forum who appreciate different points of view, and that the personal attacks against you are not FS Forum material, then the simple answer would be to out the people making the attacks and then ban them from the forum.
There seems to be some discord between the talk and action in this case, at least as far as the forum is concerned.
Kay...
:D
Needed to start this one with a smile.
The conspiracy theories are truly bizarre and the FS Forum is rife with them. One of my all time favourties is that Alexander Downer engineered a home invasion of his own house in order to have an opportunity to bag Schapelle Corby. Funny and perversely sad.
I am skeptical that an exclusive deal with New Idea will result in Schapelle being released. I think I noted this in my previous comments on this thread. There is a need to utilize the help that has been offered, even if this means surrendering a little bit of control of the process.
There are experts in the field, and in government, that can engineer a deal to see Schapelle released. Diplomacy is key. I do not see that calling Kevin Rudd out about being a climate change Copenhagen failure and ten demanding action on Schapelle in any way contributes to the Free Schapelle cause.
I have consistently argued that the "true believer" campaign is of limited use. There are more people out there in the real world who would come on board who could not give the proverbial rat's arse about whether Schapelle is guilty or innocent, or whether Australia exports weed to Bali, or whether baggage handlers did it, but are certain in their own minds that 20 years for 4kgs of weed is excessive, and that five years is more than enough time.
Is it time for a change of strategy? Yes!
Will the strategy change? No.
The key question is why not?
Should I believe the picture, worth a thousand words, of Schapelle looking quite lucid and happy or the statements from a medical professional (and those who visit her) that she is ill? It matters none to me whether she was aided in her 'Chrismas card to NI readers'. What does matter is the image burned into readers' minds that she looks fine and happy (relatively speaking). I just can't seem to make the connection on how this was helpful in convincing people she's ill and needs to come home.
http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/newidea/26031/this-week-in-new-idea/ (hardly the image of someone who 'has gone insane and will not survive her 20-year sentence unless she is moved out of Bali's Kerobokan jail') OR http://www.smh.com.au/world/schapelle-corby-insane-20090824-ewd3.html ('hanging on by a thread')?
Irene...
Yes. There seems to be some discord between the photos being used of Schapelle and the supposed desperate nature of the campaign to bring her home.
Perhaps, the Australian public would be more convinced of the dire need to bring her home if they saw pictures of her in her severe depression or in her moments of distress.
The New Idea cover clearly does not show a distressed Schapelle Corby hanging on by a thread. The phot shows a woman who seems happy enough to smile and looking reasonably well considering her supporters are arguing that Kerobokan is one of the worst prisons in Indonesia, Asia, and the world.
Oh well...
Rob,
I was horrified by the readers comments that stated just that and some went further to say that Schapelle should stay there BECAUSE she looks so well! The way Schapelle is being portrayed by NI is not going to endear her to the Australian public and by their comments, it's pretty obvious that people are becoming more inflamed. I suppose the good thing is that they are now asking questions "What about the other Australians detained overseas"...
Tack on EXCLUSIVE and the people start questioning how much more money is someone making on Schapelle's misery? These are the sort of emails we get at FPSS, which has a far wider reach than any FS forum.
Hence my concern that if the publicity machine continues to show Schapelle as some glamor girl that it will only serve to undermine her appeal for clemency in the future. The former Foreign Minister pointed this out previously and he'd know... he's dealt with dozens of these cases... and even blind Freddy can see this strategy is not going to work. Had $campaigns been in any way effective then advocates and civil rights lawyers would have adopted $campaigns as a strategy. If Schapelle does die then I fear it will be through stupidity and arrogance! Harsh words I know but I really feel terribly sorry for her and the needless suffering she is forced to endure!
Kay...
Horrified, yes. Surprised, no. I am not all that surprised because there is huge discord between the two 'realities' painted here. The words that I have been reading in various places suggest a woman who is on the edge, the brink, of disaster. One who's very existence on this earth depends on her being repatriated back to Australia for much-needed medical treatment.
Yet, the photo alludes to a completely different reality. One where Schapelle seems to be doing reasonably well under the circumstances. It is a reality where she can smile for the cameras and write an open letter to the Australian people.
As I said, horrified but not surprised.
The picture has been paintshopped, bloody obvious you morons.
And you are so obvious Kay Danes.
Even on here it is obvious.
You attack Dr Phillips report because you were not involved.
You attack Katheryn Bonella's book because it competes with yours.
You attack that forum because you are not a member.
You attack the Corbys because they won't comply with your wishes.
I wonder why people have seen through it. Seen through why you keep coming back with attacks.
Lusy & Edwin,
You two sure sound like others who have been here before, just under a new name.
I am perplexed why you feel that attempting to insult people will increase support for or even help Schapelle. It is especially troublesome when doing so to people who agree that 5 years is enough. For most people, it will do the opposite. Frankly, I'm glad that I can separate Schapelle from the nut-jobs who have surrounded her.
If the picture was in fact photo shopped to the extent at which you suggest, then it was a bloody good job. That graphic artist needs a bonus. Not everyone can make a clinically insane and depressed person look as if they just won the lotto. I wonder what was the motive of signing off on the exclusive picture, article and letter? Surely, that person would not have wanted the public, AG, and IG to think she was doing well enough for that feature exclusive? It contradicts the argument that she is ill and should come home. I'm sure that even you two can agree that it wasn't the desired outcome.
Lusy...
Now, now with the insults. If you want to criticize be sure to make it constructive. The personal criticisms directed at myself and others is so unbecoming of supporters of Schapelle. This is especially so considering that she seemingly needs all the support she can get.
If the photo has been paintshopped, photoshopped, or otherwise digitally altered isn't this dishonest? If Schapelle really is not the person we see in the cover photograph, then how does digitally touching her up help people understand the severe depression or the desperation of the situation?
No. No one is attacking Dr Phillips. However, there is some questioning of the discord between the photo and the clinical analysis. There is some questioning regarding whether the few hours on a one-off session with Schapelle was sufficient for the purposes of a full and accurate diagnosis.
After all, her local doctor, who is qualified and respected in the profession, agrees that Schapelle is depressed and anxious. However, the primary difference relates to medication and care. Dr. Thong believes that with proper medication that is taken as it is prescribed to be is the best course of action.
The photo on the cover of New Idea would seemingly support that claim. If the photo has been altered then isn't that irresponsible on the part of New Idea.
Isn't it also true that the most recent campaign for release for Schapelle is based on humanitarian grounds related to her severe depression and the need for treatment in Australia? If this is the case, then it is a legitimate question to ask, particularly where the deal with New Idea is exclusive, whether or not the photo helps the cause.
People are what they are, and a visual depiction is crucial in developing perception of a situation. The photo says that Schapelle is seemingly doing OK, and this seemingly undermines the claims that she is desperate and dying in Kerobokan.
Once again, no one is attacking the Bonella book. To the contrary, there is questioning of the timing and whether or not it helps or hinders a cause. In this case, the causes of Schapelle Corby and the Bali Nine. That is fair comment.
If you disagree, then so be it. But, to make personal attacks on those who disagree with you does not generate support for your arguments.
The Forum can defend itself, and Nev has done that earlier. However, if you are a forum member then perhaps you need to read a little more widely. Some of the posts there are inflammatory, and serve no positive purpose in advancing the agenda of seeing Schapelle repatriated. Similar to your post here attacking Kay Danes, it serves no purpose in advancing the agenda of seeing Schapelle repatriated.
There has been no personal attacks of the Corbys by Kay Danes here. Feel free to point one out, I doubt you can. However, questioning the strategy is fair comment. If one does not agree, then it is reasonable to express that disagreement in a civil manner.
Irene...
Seems we were responding at the same time.
I just do not see how the photo assists in convincing the public that Schapelle is in a depressed state and a desperate place.
Whether the photo of Schapelle is photoshopped is irrelevant. In the publishing industry it is the first 30 second grab that decides whether a person will buy what's on sale or not. Most people look at that photo and think "Doesn't she look good for someone in Jail".... this is what works against her... then you see "Exclusive" and people are suddenly informed she's cashed in. Whether she has or not is irrelevant. People form opinions sometimes with little investigation. This is a poor strategy trying to convince people that she is 'dying'.
Michael Newman case example;
www.usp.com.au/fpss/case-michael-newman.html
See how bad he looks after only three years in a Laotian prison. It supports the claim that he is in a bad way. He still died. This is the reality of foreign internment.
Have never attacked Dr Phillips or his report. Only said it would have been more effective not to have done it in a $campaign exclusive which undermined the credibility of what was being sought. Should have engaged his counterparts and a diplomatic taskforce at a round table discussion level, then something tangible might have been achieved for Schapelle. this method is govt recommended coz it works.
I have not attacked Bonella's book. I said that I am concerned with the possible effects it may have on prisoners, and in discussion with prisoners and family members, those concerns are valid. My books do not compete with Bonella's. They are completely different and I am not a paid journalist. The books I write are to raise much needed awareness of social justice issues and any money generated goes straight back into the projects and charities I support.
I defend myself against FS Forum attacks. I don't have a website that dedicates posts to bringing slanderous and inflammatory comments against others. That I do not wish to be part of it is by choice.
I have never attacked the Corbys EVER! They don't need to comply with my wishes and I have never said that they have too. I am not interested in controlling people. Mercedes Corby sought me out, asked for my help and advice. I gave it. Sometimes she didn't like what I had to say but as I said to her, that's up to you. Advice is free.
Rob's blog is interesting and allows people to express themselves without censoring their thoughts. I'm afraid that with any cult, seldom do the people in the cult realise how radical they are. Hence why common sense and logic must be added to the balance.
Social justice discussions interest me a great deal. I am no different to anyone else who is entitled to their opinion. It may bother you that I live in the real world and don't go for suggestions like forging a letter from PM Rudd to SBY as a tangible strategy to bring Schapelle home by Xmas!
Wow, this is still going. Is this going to bump Rob's blog up on the Google search engine?
I remember supporters used to be concerned about the way they portrayed themselves. They wanted to be seen as credible, not lunatics... now it seems some of them want to portray themselves as lunatics and not credible.
The comments here are evidence of this. What's with obsessively hunting down people with a different opinion, and personally attacking them?
I've also seen some appalling abuse on the fairbloodydinkum forum (reading that, it looks like Rob gets off lightly here!).
These people and their deranged, abusive attacks are doing a great deal of harm to the support movement. I'm disappointed that there are coincidences between posters on this blog, and posters on the forum. It would be good if the forum could investigate whether these people are from the forum, and then remove them so that these coincidences can stop! It's embarrassing and I think Schapelle would be horrified by this behavior.
and when I say, "the forum", I'm generally referring to the support forum - not the FDB forum which I mentioned just once in my post. Sorry for the confusion.
Kay...
At the risk of being a moron, that was my point as well. The fact that the picture has been paintshopped, photoshopped, or in some other way digitally altered to make her appear happy and smiling defeats the purpose of arguing and campaigning on the position that the girl is depressed and desperate.
Moron or not, I do not understand that. More to the point, if it is an exclusive I do not understand why the Corby family signed off on it.
The rest of your comments speak for themselves.
I would add that the idea of falsifying letters is truly bizarre. It is way, way out there. I cannot see how this sort of talk on a particular forum instills any confidence in people who seriously want to help. It goes to credibility as well.
I feel sorry for Schapelle in some ways. Simply, the belittling and unprovoked attacks on potential supporters is hardly conducive to swelling the ranks of dedicated supporters.
I have noticed that some of the things you have been saying in this thread are similar to what have been said by supporters on the forum itself. So, I am wondering whether the attacks on you here are more personal and would happen irrespective of what you were to write?
I guess some people have no idea about how to run a campaign of this nature, and hence they quickly degenerate into personal attacks when someone makes a suggestion of an alternative approach. It is all too tribal for me, too much like a pissing contest.
This is sad when you think that there is a young woman in jail while her so-called supporters are out hounding those that want to help into other causes.
Jacqui...
Funny you should mention Fair Bloody Dinkum. I was just recently there (last 24 hours) having a look around. I would agree, it seems that I get off very lightly indeed.
The exchange that took place over there (http://littleozzybloke.com/lobdc1/index.php?s=4c4028ae7ef5ca9038eec34b6fc55d75&showtopic=20627&st=0&#entry76816) was an interesting read. It occurred between someone called Aussie and someone going by the name Gaile.
It is interesting that some supporters believe that the means of generating more support is to hunt out and harass those that do not share an identical view to theirs.
I do not see how that kind of attitude helps.
I can not believe some of the comments on this blog by so called supporters. Kay Danes says in her last post that she has never attacked the Corby's but it seems that every chance she gets she puts them down.. She calls herself a Prisoner and Family's advocate but it seems when it comes to the corby's she put's every single thing they do down. (shouldn't Schapelle's family also be supported?) Most people do not know what the family do behind the scenes to help Schapelle, they have all put their lives on hold for Schapelle and do what ever they can to help her. Their efforts should not be put down. I am a good friend of Schapelle's and I know that a lot is being done for Schapelle that is not being played out in the media. Comments by people claiming they know how things should be done my question to you is why did you not help years ago? Please don't blame it on the Corby's not taking advise as I know they always took advice on board and did what they could if the advise was good and something that was a possibility.
Tanya Oakey
Is Kay Danes just jealous that it is not her on the front cover of New Idea? Isn't it good for her cause, that at least one foreign prisoner makes the news? This gives Kay a chance to get on the radio and speak about Schapelle and also make others aware of her cause to help all prisoners, she can also get her website details out there to a larger audience.
I also recall that Kay did a woman's magazine story back in 2005 about Schapelle. No doubt kay was paid for this story! Did the money go to help other prisoners or Schapelle? I know for a fact that the Corby's help many other prisoners in Kerobokan by buying clothes, linen and food. I would say that this is more then FPSS has done for any of them.
And Dr Tong wants Schapelle to be in a hospital immediately Mr Baiton, so please stop believing the lies you are being told. And she isn't "anxious" she is mentally ill so stop downplaying how serious this is. You are hurting Schapelle with these sorts of false words.
Tanya...
Thanks for dropping by and commenting. All comments are appreciated, particularly when they serve to illuminate all sides of the arguments and discourse on a particular subject.
This post started out as a post of Robin Tampoe but has certainly morphed into a pretty solid to and fro on Schapelle her trial, incarceration, and the damage that it is doing to her.
I am glad to hear that there are things happening behind the scenes that the family is doing that are aimed at seeing Schapelle repatriated. It is a good idea that they are not played out in the media. However, it is easy enough to argue that a big part of the campaign strategy is media based and seeing the issues thrashed out and played through the media, is it not? Isn't this why New Idea has an exclusive arrangement with the Corbys?
It is not about when one comes to the cause that matters. What matters is that they are prepared to help. Unfortunately, and as your comment highlights, those that come late to the cause are quite often derided and ridiculed. It always seems to be an "us" and "them" scenario. The true believers vs. the rest. And, that is very sad as it does not contribute anything positive to the campaign to see Schapelle repatriated.
With respect to Kay Danes. I am sure Kay can answer for herself. However, I do not read her comments as either attacking the Corbys or as putting them down. She is entitled to an opinion, and she is entitled to question the strategies employed. As a matter of fact, everyone has that right. Just as you and others have the right to disagree and express your disagreement.
Unfortunately, many of the people expressing that disagreement do so through personal attacks and as cowards hiding behind the veil of anonymity.
This is hardly an advertisement to get people to join the cause now, is it?
Anonymous...
Not brave enough to use your own name or even a pseudonym? Oh well.
Kay can answer for herself, if she wants to.
As for the comments directed at me. Perhaps you need to read a little more widely. If you read all the comments made on this thread, then perhaps you might have a better grip of reality and what I have said.
Dr. Thong agrees that Schapelle is depressed. If I am not mistaken Schapelle is also on anti-anxiety medication as well. Dr. Thong believes that with medication Schapelle can be treated in prison. However, if she refuses to be medicated properly then a hospital intervention was recommended. At no point have I read anywhere that Dr. Thong believes that Schapelle's depression is so severe that she is in danger of dying or that she should be repatriated because the Indonesian prisoner mental health system cannot cope.
Specifically, what lies am I being told? Perhaps you can enlighten me a little.
I am not speaking any false words. So, perhaps it is time that you anted-up and identified the lies and false words.
BTW...the only person that has called me Mr. Baiton in this whole affair did so in an off blog communication and swore blind that they had never commented nor would they ever visit the blog again. I truly hope they have been as good as their word.
Kay Danes had no reason to open all this up again. She chose to do it. She launched another unprovoked attack on the family, the Dr, the usual stuff.
When are you people going to see through it?
You have no clue about the medical situation Mr Baiton. You are totally misrepresenting Dr Tong. You are using terminology which downplays the severity of her condition. So please stop repeating it. It is damaging, it is totally false and quite sickening. You should know better.
MJW
And I call you Mr Baiton because you are a Mr. The people I speak to about you all call you Mr as well.
What do you want me to call you? What about Mr Paranoid?
MJW
Again... the ignorance of a narrow minded fool. When will these people realise that they don't own the Corbys or the right for people to discuss the issues at hand. Pathetic that they continue to attack others who believe Schapelle has suffered enough.
All this venom simply because we dared to challenge the sensibility in continuing in $campaigns as a means to securing her freedom. Thank goodness we live in a democracy where these 'thought police' have no control over us!
Merry Christmas.
In the end Kay, aren't all humans narrow minded fools? No need to categorise and give certain people status...
Yes, Kay Danes certainly wants to be on the front cover of New Idea.
Good thing that she's got some plans for 2010.
MJW...
What was written by Kay Danes previously on this thread is not an unprovoked attack. It is an opinion which you are free to disagree with, on substance. Instead you prefer to make it a personal attack on Kay Danes.
To be perfectly honest Kay Danes is not the only one raising these questions. So, why the venom directed at her? Is it personal on your part?
I have more than a little clue. But, I am guessing you have more of a clue, and you are a family friend (perhaps even family judging from your comment). So, what is the correct terminology?
It really is too bad you cannot read the rest of the posts here on this thread and garner a better understanding of what has transpired. I am hardly downplaying the seriousness of the alleged mental illness. I am, though, questioning whether or not it can be properly treated, particularly in Indonesia.
Nope, I am not misrepresenting Dr. Thong. I am not damaging Schapelle Corby. I am not damaging any efforts geared towards her repatriation. Nothing I have said here is false.
Know better than what? To voice an opinion?
MJW...
Argh...you really are an embarrassment to your cause. Mr. Paranoid? Whatever gets you through the day.
Having read the FS Forum and a few other forums that have written extensively on Schapelle Corby and her plight, I would reckon the paranoia is not with me, but rather with her supporters who think that there is some big conspiracy to damage the family that includes faking home invasions at the home of a former foreign minister.
Nah, Mr. Paranoid probably does not cut the mustard.
So, when you grow up and feel that you are ready to enter into some adult debate about the substantive issues, feel free to return and comment. Otherwise, you really are wasting your time as most readers see straight through that your game is nothing more than personal attacks on me and other posters (this normally indicates that you are devoid of any reasonable argument)...
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Kay...
In that funny, but sadly perverse, kind of a way it just goes to show that when arguments are lacking you have to play the person rather than the ball.
Unfortunately, commenters like MJW provide no facts, make no substantive arguments, instead they get straight into the personal.
Sad really.
Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Anonymous...
Seems you are having a few problems in staying on topic. Kay Danes is not the topic, Robin Tampoe is. And, if you must, then Schapelle is the topic. However, Kay Danes is not.
You really are a sad little internet troll. You cannot identify yourself, so you obviously do not have the courage of your convictions to do so. My guess is that you are not really even a "true believer". In fact, you do more damage than good to the free Schapelle movement.
Sad, really sad (especially at Christmas while Schapelle is suffering in Kerobokan and you are enjoying the life of freedom).
Rob,
Is it possible, say in the Indonesian legal system, for the legal team to refuse or agree for something to occur without their client's knowledge and/or consent?
Hi Rob,
I’d love to challenge you on many things you’ve said but the underlying assumptions are wrong. Indonesia is not a nation guided by the rule of law. A quick look at the Tommy Suharto case and dozens of others is enough to convince the most seasoned sceptic.
In a response to Desert Rat you said, “If the Bali police are known to sell weed on the beaches of Bali then there must have been arrests and court cases that can be cited. I will check on my own, but if you have links then that would be much appreciated.”
I have to say that I am a little stunned given your statement that you are very familiar with Indonesia having lived there for most of this century. So, let me flesh it out for you and perhaps I can come back to the Corby case once we have an understanding of Indonesia itself.
When I was at law school the Indonesian legal and judicial system was used as an example of a the way these systems function in a totalitarian state. The courts were merely window dressing in line with a dictatorship that was pretending to be a democracy. People seem to forget that Indonesia has had elections since 1947 even if it was always the Golkar Party that won. So, not only was it a dictatorship it was a dictatorship that was pretending that it wasn’t.
They had sham trials and if it were a civil case he who paid the most or had the most influence won the day and officers of the court collaborated to milk as much from both parties as was possible sharing up the loot at the end of the day. In criminal cases, however, you were guilty if the police said you were guilty and the role of defence lawyers was not to debate innocence but rather to negotiate for a better deal.
The alleged change in Indonesia began in the early 90’s when an Australian journalist got out of East Timor with footage of the Dilli massacre. By the mid 90’s the anger over human rights abuses in East Timor had spread until it reached the USA congress and Clinton imposed a trade embargo on Indonesia that sent the country broke. Indonesian students rebelled in 1998, Suharto was ousted and Indonesia became a vibrant democracy that ran fair trials.
However, this was merely the official story. The reality is that no one in power really cared about East Timor. They never did. In the mid 90’s the Asian stock market crash began to bite and Indonesia was defaulting on its loans and fairing far worse than other Asian nations. The IMF paid a visit to Suharto and told him to end cronyism and free up competition and that this would save Indonesia. (To be continued)
(Part 2 - due to length restrictions)
However, Suharto did something really dumb. He ignored the advice given by the IMF and tied the Rupiah to the greenback creating a negative impact on American currency. The Americans had no option but to impose trade sanctions and while they used the humanitarian excuse that Indonesia must make changes towards democracy for the embargo to be lifted, Suharto’s rule and cronyism were the target while East Timor was negotiable - Indonesia could hold onto East Timor if a referendum returned a vote for Indonesian rule.
The USA knew that the West Papuan ‘Act of Free Choice’ had been a complete sham. That was where nominated West Papuans voted for or against free rule while Indonesian troops held guns to the heads of their families. So, when the USA allowed Indonesia to run a referendum in East Timor, a nation that had been brutalized and conquered and where every East Timorese had a tale of personal tragedy it was given that without Interference from Indonesia the East Timorese would vote for self rule.
However, not a single American soldier went into East Timor under a UN flag to oversee the referendum and ensure that the East Timorese experience wasn’t a repeat of the West Papuan sham. The UN forces that fought Indonesian militias coming over the border to ‘influence’ voting were entirely Australian troops. Shots were fired and the Indonesian troops were forced back into West Timor - Indonesia despises us for that.
So the story of Indonesia’s path to democracy is that in May of 1998, 2000 University Students from Jakarta, the children of the rich and influential elite in Indonesia, scaled the palace walls to stage a sit in (taken from their observations of the West in the 60’s) and drove the evil dictator Suharto into exile. Of course, no one in any government has ever commented on this or challenged it because this too was an obvious sham. At the time there were two senior Generals in the palace including Wiranto along with an entire company of Kopassus. The kids were all fed from the palace kitchens and had access to the toilets. Not one cut of bruise was reported.
To further simulate a revolution “well muscled men with short haircuts and flowery shirts” burned Sino-Indonesian businesses In Jakarta, murdered any ethnic Chinese they found and over 2000 Sino-Indonesian women were raped.
Indonesian “democracy” was ushered in when Suharto retired to the expensive suburbs of Jakarta with $US36 Billion, his assets completely intact, and a full complement of bodyguards and household servants. His spokesman claimed that “he was too ill to stand trial.” To add salt to the wound, in his final days, Suharto sued Time Magazine for defamation because they dared to call ‘this evil dictator in exile’ a “crook”. Suharto won the case and was awarded $US280 Million.
So Rob, please tell me when exactly did Indonesia become a democracy that ran fair trials according to Indonesian law and cease running the shams they were infamous for where courts filled no function at all other than to bargain for the best deal after you are found guilty?
Annonymous.... just because some people want to be on the front page of magazines doesn't mean the rest of us do. In fact, with the work it is better that I'm not.... and I'm totally fine with this. I don't chase media like others, I don't chase $campaigns... in fact, most of what I do is done quietly in a diplomatic way.. most usually away from media. So your argument that I am some sort of media hound is rather devoid of evidence.
Here's something for you... why not try and create a positive post for Schapelle as opposed to attacking people to whom you have a personal grudge against or harbor jealously over. If you are meant to be trying to generate support for Schapelle, it won't do you any good to attack people like me or Rob who believe she's suffered enough and should be repatriated.
The problem with you cult supporters is that you must control everyone.. like the thought police in your forum. anyone who disagrees gets deleted or the conversation is moved to the private forum. Why are you all so afraid of people voicing their opinion? It's no way to endear people or potential supporters to Schapelle's cause. To the contrary... you all just turn people off. No wonder she's floating up the river without a paddle.. the poor girl. If you all spent more energy on engaging in civil discussion as opposed to beating people down then maybe you'd get that ground swell of support for her that you are always rattling on about!
As for democracies and fair trials.... I've said it a hundred times before... even in Australia there are gross injustices in the legal system... does that mean we are not a democracy?
This whole webing blog page makes the gossip magazines seem completely professional. That is, Rob Baiton, Kay Danes hirarchy. They dismiss everyone else says but themselves. This whole page is SOOOOOOOOOO amateurish!! By the amount of time Rob is spending on it, I would say very little work is available to him at the moment!
Hahaha.... you certainly are an avid contributer to Rob's blog. I'd say you are his number one fan! hahaha
Anonymous said, "This whole webing blog page makes the gossip magazines seem completely professional. That is, Rob Baiton, Kay Danes hirarchy. They dismiss everyone else says but themselves. This whole page is SOOOOOOOOOO amateurish!! By the amount of time Rob is spending on it, I would say very little work is available to him at the moment!"
Anonymous,
Why don't you enlighten us to what a professional post looks like? After all, it is you who refuses to go by a real name. Also, which gossip magazines are you referring to? I'd really appreciate some specifics. Do you have anything to add or are you so fixated and obsessed with Kay and Rob that you just can't seem to contribute to a debate and/or discussion? It seems to me that they both are the professional ones. Oddly enough, their opinions are backed by actual experience which we could learn from if we just listened...what do you have to offer? Thus, I think it's time that you actually ante up with some responses and not attacks or leave. I think it is you who dismisses all other comments which don't agree with your beliefs. Instead of responding with an intellectual thought, you make a personal attack. You are a very peculiar person!
Kay, while I may agree with you to some extent on certain issues here, I really don't understand how anyone can arrive at valid conclusions when the assumptions they are basing these conclusion on is incorrect. Yes, there have been some shocking lapses of justice here but I have not said that Indonesia runs sham trials and is not a democracy because of any injustices that may have occurred there. They are not a democracy because 2000 University students scaling the palace walls did not route the Indonesian army and end their representation in the MPR or cause any shift in power.
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